Cycle Gard valve?

[Ballvalve]

Looks like Flo-matic is mimicking the CSV valve. Whats the real deal with these?

 

[Valveman]

Looks like Flo-matic is mimicking the CSV valve. Whats the real deal with these?

We have been making CSV's for so long (since 1993) that all the patents are expired. So now there are several companies doing there best to make a CSV copy. They also copy our installation instructions, advertising, and everything else, because they do not understand how they work. We get a few calls from people trying to make one of the CSV copies function correctly. We just tell them it won't work because it is the wrong color.

If you are going to steal ideas or buy a copy because you think it is cheaper, you should at least understand how they work so you don't have to call the original inventor to find out how to make the copy cat valve work. If it was an expensive product I could understand wanting to find a generic version. But when you can have the original for as little as 63 bucks, generics will just cause you a lot of headaches.

There wouldn't be so many trying to copy the CSV if it wasn't such a good idea to start with. But would you buy a car from someone who said "it is just like a Ford"? If you don't buy a real Ford don't expect to have support when you need help. Same goes with a CSV.

 

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[Greenmonster123]

The driller I use told me about a job where they used a cycle guard on a 5 hp submersible irrigation pump. The irrigation guy on the site decided to mess around with the tank fill valve and closed it completely and walked away. The switch could never satisfy so it burned up the day after it was installed.

 

[Ballvalve]

We have been making CSV's for so long (since 1993) that all the patents are expired. So now there are several companies doing there best to make a CSV copy. They also copy our installation instructions, advertising, and everything else, because they do not understand how they work. We get a few calls from people trying to make one of the CSV copies function correctly. We just tell them it won't work because it is the wrong color.

If you are going to steal ideas or buy a copy because you think it is cheaper, you should at least understand how they work so you don't have to call the original inventor to find out how to make the copy cat valve work. If it was an expensive product I could understand wanting to find a generic version. But when you can have the original for as little as 63 bucks, generics will just cause you a lot of headaches.

There wouldn't be so many trying to copy the CSV if it wasn't such a good idea to start with. But would you buy a car from someone who said "it is just like a Ford"? If you don't buy a real Ford don't expect to have support when you need help. Same goes with a CSV.

Funny that they make pressure tanks too. Maybe you should be honored. Looks like their generics are actually more than yours. When you pick up your med's, however, I am sure you thank god the patent on those expired. Cuts both ways, unfortunately.

 

[Valveman]

Imitation is the highest form of flattery. But it doesn't put groceries on the table. I discovered a long time ago that patents were not designed to protect the inventor. Patents were designed to get the inventor to draw and explain exactly how a new and beneficial product is made and used. For that the inventor gets 20 years of patent protection. Then after the 20 years is over, the rest of the world will have a blueprint of exactly how to make and use this product, so it can be of benefit to everyone from now on. Unfortunately it takes about 20 years for the idea of a new product to catch on. So about the time the product becomes mainstream, the patent has expired, and the inventor just gets to price compete with everyone who likes to make copies of marketable products.

If you write a book or a song, your have copyright protection and you get paid anytime someone uses it forever. But if you make a product that could produce energy from nothing and can save the entire world, you only get 20 years to do what you can with your invention.

The same people (companies) I tried to get to work with me on licensing the product just waited 20 years and let me do all the pioneering work. Then they started making copies of CSV's and stepped right into a market that was already pioneered and established. People should take into account the devious nature of those who make copies of patented products. If they will play the system to cheat the inventor, they will also do the same to their customers. People who make copies of patented products also have no experience or expertise, so they also end up copying technical data and instructions that were hard earned during those first 20 years by the inventor.

I have several other ideas that I could file patents on. But the American public will never get the benefit of seeing those. I would rather take those ideas to the grave than put it out there for other companies to just copy as they are doing the CSV. I know of a lot of inventors who feel the same way. After patenting their first product then having to compete with others who just copy them, they become very disillusioned with the entire patent process. America is losing out on a lot of good ideas that will never be shown in the light of day, because US and foreign patent laws don't protect the inventor the way they do an "artist" that just writes a silly song.

 

[Ballvalve]

Good points. Perhaps some politician should try and extend the patent rights to a longer time. But if you didn't get the 20 years, flomatic would have built them 20 years ago. Ultimately, patents only protect those with a gaggle of greasy lawyers on staff, and a bangup product that has the backing of millions of dollars of advertising. Electronic companies usually don't care about the patent time because their stuff will be obsolete in 3 years. Something like a Zerk valve, that is perhaps 80+ years old, is screwed by that 20 year period. Although Mr. Zerk had a mansion in Wisconsin near my old home that was likely worth 300 million in todays dollars when it was built in perhaps the 30's. If you can make your nugget in 20 years, then one can live with the rules. How about Band-aid and Kleenex? Wonder how they feel about their names applied to all the generics out there?

How about Viagra and Cialis? Look at all the India companies making fortunes by selling fake or poor quality versions of that because the crooks are allowed in the American market to charge 10 or 15$ for a pill. Many cancer drugs have been imported from England by HMO's, to later find they are counterfeits from Pakistan or Youpickastan, that have killed many people.

 

[Valveman]

Good points. Perhaps some politician should try and extend the patent rights to a longer time. But if you didn't get the 20 years, flomatic would have built them 20 years ago. Ultimately, patents only protect those with a gaggle of greasy lawyers on staff, and a bangup product that has the backing of millions of dollars of advertising. Electronic companies usually don't care about the patent time because their stuff will be obsolete in 3 years. Something like a Zerk valve, that is perhaps 80+ years old, is screwed by that 20 year period. Although Mr. Zerk had a mansion in Wisconsin near my old home that was likely worth 300 million in todays dollars when it was built in perhaps the 30's. If you can make your nugget in 20 years, then one can live with the rules. How about Band-aid and Kleenex? Wonder how they feel about their names applied to all the generics out there?

How about Viagra and Cialis? Look at all the India companies making fortunes by selling fake or poor quality versions of that because the crooks are allowed in the American market to charge 10 or 15$ for a pill. Many cancer drugs have been imported from England by HMO's, to later find they are counterfeits from Pakistan or Youpickastan, that have killed many people.

Another bad thing about patents is that they don't really stop anyone from making and selling copies. When you do sue for patent infringements, all you can get is damages. So if they only sell a few copies, damages don't add up to much. And since it cost at least a half million dollars to get a lawyer to file for patent infringements, there has to be enough "damages" to at least pay the attorney fees. So you just have to sit and watch these people sell copies of your patented product until they have sold enough for the damages to add up to at least a half million dollars. Then when you do sue, all the money awarded goes right to the lawyers.

If you can make an improvement and get a patent on just one little change to a product that is well established and already a mainstream item, sales are already established so it doesn't take long to get the new product selling in large quantities. But if you patent a revolutionary idea that replaces old existing technology, it takes about 20 years to pioneer the idea to the point where it becomes mainstream. Many big companies know this, and they just wait, while you incur all the time and expense to do all the pioneering of the new product. After you have spent 20 years advertising and educating to get the product selling as mainstream, they just step in and say, "they have one just like it only cheaper".

I think after the 20 years are up, they should still pay a small royalty to the original inventor, the same way "artists" get paid when someone plays their 50 year old song. Maintenance fees on patents are paid every three years and they are expensive. These maintenance fees go up every time they are due, because they think you should be selling more in the last part of the 20 years than in the first part. After 20 years the inventor has NO protection. So Kleen-ex, Band-Aid, and Cresent Wrench now have to price compete with all the copy cats. Most first time inventors do not understand this. But after they see how it works, they have no incentive to spend all the time and money it takes to patent and pioneer a new product, just to have others steal the idea about the time it starts to become popular.