Curbless Shower

Discussion in 'Shower & Bathtub Forum & Blog' started by Freddie, Dec 13, 2012.

  1. Freddie

    Freddie Member

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    Ottawa
    Hi John,

    Did a bit more research on ACO linear drains at exit and found the flowrate specs for the various drains and heads of water. Looks like minimum of 6 gpm on 36" shower drain with no head and around 8.5 gpm with 0.2" of head. So I would think with only 2 shower heads at 2.5 gpm there should be no problem especially if you lower the linear drain a bit below the tile level as you mentioned previously and then maybe a bit of dry side slope. I will probably try to fit in a wider shower stall, even if it is a few inches more say to fit in the roughly 40" drain. That'll also give me an additional 10% of flow capacity.

    Have you had any better success with any specific grate design in applications like this? They all seem to look good and I do like the lit drain option if it's not too expensive an option.
     
  2. Freddie

    Freddie Member

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    Will work on floor joist drawing. Do you want to whole bathroom or would just the area around the shower work for you? Been through the whole design with a number of people; not much other locations for the shower anyways.

    No TTMAC tile specs. Will get if I decide that I'm gonna do the tiling.

    Was doing a heated floor but was not planning on doing it below the shower.
     
  3. Freddie

    Freddie Member

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    Also, can't seem to find much information on the linear grate linear drain from ACO except for the following:

    http://www.quartzbyaco.com/grate-styles

    It states that the Intake sq. in. = 55.38 which is 60% more than the next nearest grate style "Flag". Cannot find any spec on "Linear" grate flow rate and I would assume that it would get more than the Flag based on a higher intake. Looking at a chart they have in their technical manual for flow rates at 0" head:


    No grate = 6.65 usgpm
    Tile = 6.49 usgpm (makes sense that it would be less given that it has blocked off some of the intake area with tile)
    Flag = 6.34 usgpm

    Now this is where I get confused. Flag has intake sq. in. = 31.36 while Tile has intake sq. in. = 18.10. Wouldn't you think the one with the larger intake area would be able to process more flow?

    Now trying to estimate flow for the linear grate which is not shown and it has intake sq. in. = 55.38.

    So either this is not the intake opening of the grate or something is not correct.

    All these numbers come from page 16 of the technical manual:

    http://www.quartzbyaco.com/sites/default/files/technical_handbook.pdf

    Can anyone clarfiy? Thanks,
     
  4. Freddie

    Freddie Member

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    Here's my joist layout dwg after a bit of cutting out of the floor. Hopefully it shows up ok. Ensuite Joists_0001.jpg

    Now let me explain:

    1. The top horizontal line is the inside of the wall framing on the external wall.
    2. The far right vertical line is the inside of the wall framing on the external wall.
    3. The dashed line indicates a wall I will be adding to run the plumbing so that it is inside the insulation.
    4. All the joist are 2" x 10".
    5. Horizontal dimensions are (from right to left): 0,10,26,42 inches
    6. Vertical dimension are (from top to bottom): 0, 26, 36.25,42,48.5 inches

    Also, here is a snapshot of how it currently looks:

    Ensuite Bathroom Reno 034 resized.jpg
     
  5. Freddie

    Freddie Member

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    The linear grate from ACO will be I'm sure the highest flow rate of their grate options - the tile top the lowest.

    That's what I would have thought as well. Just saying their data sheets seem a bit wonky on that. If you see a spec sheet on the linear grate with respect to flowrates I'd appreciate it if you could forward a copy or a link to it.

    thx,
     
  6. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

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    Retired Systems engineer for defense industry.
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    FWIW, most of the strength in a solid joist is established by an intact top and bottom section - one in tension, the other in compression. The rules for drilling holes restrict cutting holes near the ends since that's where walls and things may be located and pose a crush risk. Other than that, the holes need leave the top and bottom of the joist intact. Think I-beam or truss...the top and bottom are important, while on some designs, the middle is mostly open. Basically, the middle holds the top and bottom in the right place in a beam, but may not contribute a lot to the overall strength. That's why there are restrictions on where you can drill holes. The further apart the top and bottom are, the stronger it gets (if you can keep the top and bottom aligned).
     
  7. Freddie

    Freddie Member

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  8. Freddie

    Freddie Member

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    John,

    Pretty busy right now but trying to move forward a bit before we leave for NYC in a few days. Just looking at this picture and I assume that the trim was placed on the side as well at the same height above the drain to match up with the floor. Assuming that is true and that the floor drains from the laundry machines down to the linear drain then there should be 5/8" of drain from the right end of the drain to the trim. As you move farther back along the right side the mud will be rising but the trim will be remaining level so some funky tiling will be needed. Just trying to make sure I understand this to see if I can somehow use something like this in my application.

    Also, are you aware of which linear drains are CSA approved for use in Canada? That's one thing the inspector mentioned; all things must be csa approved.

    Have a good holiday season and probably won't hear from me until after the new year.
     
  9. Freddie

    Freddie Member

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    Looks like LED lighting where the edge of the glass is going to go. Nice touch.

    You mention ABS clamping drain. Did that comes with the linear drain? Looks familiar to what I've seen that is part of the Quartz linear drain install.
     
  10. Freddie

    Freddie Member

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    Just to clarify that when you say line drains you mean linear drains?
     
  11. Freddie

    Freddie Member

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    Dec 13, 2012
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    Hi John,

    Just been looking at the Noble linear drains and am impressed by the design of it. Seems to be quite easy to install and easy to connect to a noble membrane. Couple of questions:

    1. They talk about a "full bed mortar installation" and a "thin-bed install". When would you use the full bed install method? I still got lots to learn on this.

    2. Would you recommend this drain or is their a better one that you would recommend? Price of course is of concern but installation procedure and size will play a role.

    Noble then ACO then Proline then Schluter??

    Looking for any feedback on these that might help me select one over the other. Feel free to private message me if you prefer.

    thx,
     
  12. Freddie

    Freddie Member

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    Nice looking point drains.

    I'll contact the guy from ACO this week but in looking at their drains, in terms of vertical space requirements, there is a requirement for 1.5" of mortar and tile above the membrane and the membrane is approx. 1" from the floor so 2.5" from the floor in total which is not gonna work for me.

    Noble drain to me might work. I'll contact the Noble guy as well. Of course I'll mention to both that you recommended that I call you.
     
  13. Freddie

    Freddie Member

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    Dec 13, 2012
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    Hi John,

    Just looked at QuickDrain Proline Drain. Looks to me that the drain body sits on the floor and then you just tile up from there. To me that would mean the top of the drain is about 1/2" above the floor rather than 2.5" with the ACO drain. I could then easily use this drain. Am I missing something here?
     
  14. Freddie

    Freddie Member

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  15. Freddie

    Freddie Member

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    Nice job and beautiful tile.
     
  16. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Joined:
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    Occupation:
    Retired Systems engineer for defense industry.
    Location:
    New England
    My inspector allowed an electric towel warmer just outside the tub/shower as long as it was wired directly into a GFCI. I have mine on a separate GFCI CB. I have it wired to a Lutron timer with clock. This also has an override, but only will keep it on through the next 15-minute segment.
     
  17. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Joined:
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    Occupation:
    Retired Systems engineer for defense industry.
    Location:
    New England
    I wouldn't really want a switch or receptacle within easy reaching distance of the tub or shower. The control for my towel warmer is on the side opposite the tub/shower, so you'd have to reach over the towel warmer to get to it...it would be tough without getting out of the tub first. I think that there is a code requirement on the distance from a wet area, but don't have access to the codes easily. But, consider the location of a receptacle over a vanity with the sink right there...easy to reach the water and the electrical appliance at the same time...this is one reason GFCI protection is required.
     
  18. Freddie

    Freddie Member

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    I would think that the CPE membrane would be a better waterproofing than the bonded membrane since I have the choice. I guess the difference might be that the CPE membrane needs more protection before tiling? Can't see why but I'll use what I have to use to keep the thickness of the whole install down but would prefer the CPE membrane.
     
  19. Freddie

    Freddie Member

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    Dec 13, 2012
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    Ottawa
    John,

    Just looking at some of your photos. In my case I have will have a linear drain at the entrance of the shower which is one end of the rectangle. The floor will slope up from there to the back of the shower. I assume that the glass for the side panel would have to be cut to match the slope of the shower and rest on the edge of the incline. Or, can you just rest in on the main bathroom floor and silicone the glass to the edge of the tile? I would think in either case that one would wrap the waterproofing in under the bathroom floor.

    Just trying to work ahead until I hear back from some of your buddies.

    I'm trying to do the same as on the right photo on page 16 labelled "Installation at the Entrance" except I'll have a door on the entrance as well.

    http://www.quartzbyaco.com/sites/default/files/technical_handbook.pdf
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2013
  20. Freddie

    Freddie Member

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    Jim, Talked to a guy who sells the Proline drain and he told me that a full Lacticrete lifetime warranty was in order for the entire shower if all their products were used with the Proline drain and that QuickDrain has approved the use of Lacticrete products with their drain. The guy also said that there would be no problem with me matching up this drain with the level of the finished floor. Not a complicated install.

    Above you mentioned how hard my install was and how complicated it was. Am I missing something in the translation.

    Still awaiting response from both Geoff and Eric.
     
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