Cultured Marble Shower Pan - No Flange

Discussion in 'Shower & Bathtub Forum & Blog' started by BobbyT65, Jul 19, 2014.

  1. BobbyT65

    BobbyT65 New Member

    Messages:
    2
    Location:
    Georgia
    I hired someone to do an entire shower install with acrylic surround. The pan is a cultured marble pan with a separate curb. So the pan was just a flat piece of cultured marble with a hole (slightly sloped) and no flanges.

    The butted the pan against the wall studs. They put green board all the way down to the pan and sealed it with silicone. Then they put the acrylic material on the wall down to pan and seal it with silicone.

    They may have put the green all the way to the floor and pushed the pan against it and sealed.

    Either way, I am thinking this is bad news. There should have been a flange either on the pan or sealed to the pan.

    The reason the shower is being redone is because the last install leaked. I don't want to go through this again. I am ready to shut the job down due to other problems, but this is one I want to make sure I am thinking correctly about.

    Thanks for your advice!
  2. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple Bathroom Design & Build - North Vancouver, B.C.

    Messages:
    4,711
    Location:
    North Vancouver, BC
    Green E-Board or Green Drywall. Two different products.

    Does the base use a water based waterproofing product? Does that need re applying every six months?

    Have you read the post I have on the Stone Indonesian Shower pan. It might shed some light on how someone like me tackles a shower base like yours.

    From what little I understand about your job it sounds like to me that the crew is doing the least possible for your build. You might salvage this work if the base is in fact waterproof with some topical waterproofing systems.
  3. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple Bathroom Design & Build - North Vancouver, B.C.

    Messages:
    4,711
    Location:
    North Vancouver, BC
    Green E-Board looks like this.

    [​IMG]

    Green Dry wall looks like this

    [​IMG]

    Green Drywall should never be used as a tile substrate backer in a shower environment. That is my opinion anyway. Very common - Helps keep a steady pool of work lined up in the shower industry.

    New tile

    new grout

    New backer boards

    New New New.

    As build I would think your shower has a 2-5 year time frame. Is that enough?
  4. RedShoecounterbalance

    RedShoecounterbalance Stay away from ladders

    Messages:
    509
    Location:
    Minnesota
    BobbyT, sorry to hear this. Did you do your homework before hiring the second contractor? Is this a professional tile expert with a history of successful shower projects and clients that you verified before hiring???

    All to often these things happen when people source their shower builders via price point and thru online resources like craigslist.

    Make sure your shower gets flood tested regardless of it being a solid base.

    In regards to green drywall ... That subject has been beaten to death !!! No is the answer.
  5. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple Bathroom Design & Build - North Vancouver, B.C.

    Messages:
    4,711
    Location:
    North Vancouver, BC
    You would think. Wait till the blow hard chimes in to talk about TCNA and NTCA recommendations and this and that.

    I agree - drywall of any kind has no business in a shower build. But when one company promotes and nearly pushes it on you the others have to follow suit. Nowdays it seems every company has followed the Orange path to shower building.

    I called this orange company last year and asked about building a steam shower and the girl at the US tech support told me to use drywall. I never asked if I could she recommended it....

    What a shit show.
  6. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    22,266
    Location:
    New England
    There is no good way to seal the seams of the acrylic panels, and without a lip on the pan, the silicon will not work and the drywall (green, or any other color!) will fail. It doesn't make sense to me why anyone would build a plastic shower pan without a tiling flange.

    There are add-on tiling flange kits that can be attached to things like that pan or a tub if it does not have a flange, but still, silicon is not a viable sealant to the panels and pan junction. http://www.us.kohler.com/us/Tiling-in-bead,-180-length/productDetail/Non-Catalog/415980.htm and others make them, too.

    The only time drywall works in a tub/shower environment is if it goes beneath a properly designed waterproof membrane such as Kerdi from Schluter, or HydroBan from Laticrete (both list drywall as an acceptable substrate for their waterproofing membranes in their instructions, and have had them certified to work based in industry standards, regardless of what others may say about it). Both of those systems have engineered methods to ensure the seams are waterproof, and not an issue. They are both designed to have tile installed over them, so that would make it harder to hide it underneath an acrylic panel, but it could be done. I do not believe those guys understand or would be willing to do it right.
  7. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,298
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    I've seen a lot of cultured mable installed.
    It has all been done with greenboard, and seems to last a long, long time.
    The panels and the pan are water tight and sealed with Silicone where the panels meet. I see some bathrooms on the Eastside here that are approaching fifty years now. I wouldn't worry about it.

    You're not working with tile and grout. Way different situation. :)
  8. RedShoecounterbalance

    RedShoecounterbalance Stay away from ladders

    Messages:
    509
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Prolonging or dragging on the drywall debate is futile in terms of water.

    I cringe at the weight of anything adhered to it pulling the top layer of paper off as a human leans against said shower wall , forbid it be 2 humans !!!!!!! shear bond or not its a concern with todays larger material choices! My 2 common cents .
  9. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    22,266
    Location:
    New England
    If you're using a panel system (i.e., one that is designed to snap together and provide waterproof joints), then it really doesn't matter much what's behind it. But, since your pan is not part of a 'system' and had no lip or engineered system to protect what's behind it at the edges...just silicon may not be your best and most reliable solution, or to have drywall down to the top of the pan at the edge. Simple expansion/contraction through the season changes can sheer a silicon joint if it is not installed just right...that's why an engineered joint is needed.

    FWIW, moisture resistant drywall has not been approved for use in wet areas for years now.
  10. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple Bathroom Design & Build - North Vancouver, B.C.

    Messages:
    4,711
    Location:
    North Vancouver, BC
    Everyone pushes drywall now - no company more so than Schluter.

    But now all the companies have it listed.

    Laticrete
    Mapei
    Ardex

    With these panels I would think a better way of building the walls would be to use some kind of waterproofing tie in to the cultured base. At the very least some Ardex 8+9 and some SK mesh.

    Crack Isolation and full 118.10 waterproofing. All for $85.00

    Even some of Noble's Wall Seal set with the EXT.

    Anything other than cheap cheap cheap.....
  11. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    22,266
    Location:
    New England
    Maybe they list it because, if you install their waterproofing properly, it never gets wet, it's stable, comes in large sheets (fewer seams), and installs easily. They also list a fair amount of other materials that work with their systems, but, why not recommend one that is easier to install? Your choice, they all work. None of them say you MUST use drywall...they give you a choice of those materials they have tested and know will work - and, will warrant fully.
  12. BobbyT65

    BobbyT65 New Member

    Messages:
    2
    Location:
    Georgia
    Wow, I thought I would get notified when there were comments. I thought no one cared :) . Thanks for all of the replies.

    I am not sure if it is okay to mention company and material. It is a Nationwide Company called Rebath and the material is DuraBath. The backer is Green Sheetrock. The pan goes against the studs in the wall. The green board is set on top of the pan with no flange on the pan. That joint is sealed. The DuraBath is glued to the sheetrock and set on top of the pan also and caulked. This does not seem very good to me. Essentially two beads of caulk between the shower floor and the studs in the wall.

    If I read the manufactures order form for the pan correctly, an acrylic angle was supposed to be sealed to the pan by a "trained" technician. I think the warranty is now void.

    This whole job has been a fiasco from day one. I could just about live with it all if I knew this would not leak.
Similar Threads: Cultured Marble
Forum Title Date
Shower & Bathtub Forum & Blog Cultured Marble onto Redgard? Feb 20, 2014
Shower & Bathtub Forum & Blog Cultured Marble shower base and Oatey "No-Calk" Oct 7, 2012
Shower & Bathtub Forum & Blog reduce size of cutout in cultured marble shower to match new valve trim plate gasket Apr 19, 2012
Shower & Bathtub Forum & Blog Preslope under cultured marble base? Mar 22, 2012
Shower & Bathtub Forum & Blog Cultured Marble Shower Base Install Jun 14, 2010

Share This Page