CSV male threads

Discussion in 'Pumps and Tanks Well Forum & Blog' started by estone, Apr 18, 2008.

  1. estone

    estone New Member

    Messages:
    72
    Location:
    Colorado
    I have a brass CSV(CSV1Z,1 1/4") and a brass tank T, 1", both with male threads. I have read never to thread female PVC to male brass.
    I guess it makes sense because they are leaking and I am having a devil of a time getting them to seal. I've used teflon tape, maybe 5-6 wraps. Two of them are sealed and two leak. All the rest of the fittings are glued or PVC unions which are all sealing.

    The reason I did this is I thought the PVC would be easier to work with and would seal fine.

    What is your experience?
  2. estone

    estone New Member

    Messages:
    72
    Location:
    Colorado
    Is it correct that you should not put female PVC to male brass?

    If not, do you think I'm not getting enough tape on or not tightening it enough? I figured snug with a channel locks is correct?

    I'm assuming the Tape is better than the paste? Or does the paste seal better?

    Any suggestions would be appreciated!
  3. valveman

    valveman Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    4,418
    Location:
    Lubbock, Texas
    The low lead brass that everyone is now forced to use is not nearly as good as the regular brass was. Sometimes there will be a hair line crack where the mold halves go together. If you thread in a 1" male fitting it will crack out where you can see it. When you thread over the 1 1/4" fitting it holds the crack together but, it still leaks. It may be the valve and not your fault. Thread a 1" metal fitting into the valve and see if you can see a crack.
  4. estone

    estone New Member

    Messages:
    72
    Location:
    Colorado
    I should be more specific.

    This is all brand new. The CSV is new and I was trying to thread a sch 80PVC union onto it. One side holds the other leaks.

    Same with the tank T. I was threading a sch 80 union onto it. Both leak

    Sounds like I should put a metal adapter on the CSV then thread a male PVC to the female metal fitting. I'm learning.
  5. speedbump

    speedbump Previous member

    Messages:
    4,540
    Location:
    Riverview, Fl.
    I had this problem many years ago and won't use a female PVC anything on metal of any kind. They crack. Maybe not right away, but eventually the PVC will crack. Then all the Teflon Tape in the world willnot stop the leak. Use a Galvanized coupling instead and a Male PVC Adaptor. You will be happier.

    bob...
  6. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,485
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    Pvc

    Screwing ANYTHING into a female PVC connection will expand it. The tighter the connection is made the more expansion that will occur. Eventurally the female connection will split. And any corrosion in the joint because of miniscule leakage will also overstress the female connection. Use a brass coupling or something similar to join a male metal connection to a male PVC adapter. And adding additional layers of Teflon tape only makes the problem worse.
  7. Mikey

    Mikey Aspiring Old Fart, EE, computer & networking geek

    Messages:
    2,714
    Location:
    Central Florida
    Evidence

    HJ is (as usual) correct. Here's a female PVC fitting (that had a male PVC fitting screwed into it) from my professionally-installed water softener that failed after a couple of years. The installer mentioned (as he was using his 18" wrenches on the fittings) that he never had a leak. Note that when the fitting failed, it took the pipe with it:

    Cracked fitting.JPG

    I always use Teflon tape plus some really gross blue thread sealant that winds up getting all over everything and tighten only to one oomph.
  8. estone

    estone New Member

    Messages:
    72
    Location:
    Colorado
    Thanks for the advice.

    Like an idiot I didn't realize that the CSV1Z has female threads too. So I took it all apart and used PVC male nipples to thread into the CSV.

    I also replaced the unions on the brass T with galvanized ones.


    Now my galvanized union won't seal! Leaking around the center threads.

    Also having trouble getting one of the sch 80 PVC nipples to seal in the CSV.
    I tightened them pretty tight with channel locks til they were tight. Maybe too tight? I maybe did two to three oomphs.

    Dang it, I probably should of went copper to begin with!
  9. Mikey

    Mikey Aspiring Old Fart, EE, computer & networking geek

    Messages:
    2,714
    Location:
    Central Florida
    I doubt channel locks allow enough oomph.

    When my well driller installed the galvanized union on the supply line, he used 24" wrenches and more oomphs than I could count. They don't leak, but I hope they never have to come apart.

    For my PVC unions, I use some that join with an O-ring in the center to make the seal. No wrenching required -- just hand tighten.
  10. estone

    estone New Member

    Messages:
    72
    Location:
    Colorado
    Used the pipe wrench and it worked! PVC unions fine.

    Now one small drip on check valve. PVC nipple into Brass check valve. I'll have to try putting some of that blue valve sealant on it.

    Thanks.


    To those of you that suggested the CSV to me(Bob NH, valveman, etc.) That thing is awesome. Alot cheaper than the constant pressure system and will last longer I'm sure!
  11. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    It sounds to me as if you don't have things aligned properly.

    I guess I'm the odd guy... I have used sch 40 and 80 PVC and CPVC females for many installations on pressure tanks, jet pumps and water treatment equipment for 20 years. I had one customer cause a female to break the night after I left when he that evening plumbed to my line from his softener to install a utility sink. He pulled my 3/4" sch 40 line down about 1/2" to insert a tee about 2' away from it. He should have put the tee in the vertical that was closer to the sink but he said he dint want to kneel down to do it.... And when he saw his plumbing didn't match up without straining the line, he didn't want to change my part because he though it would be ok. The female broke about 3 am while his wife was still up doing laundry. And he blamed me... That's the only failure I know of. But then I follow instructions and don't use too much tape or over tighten fittings of any type. I notice that plastic females are bought everywhere so someone is doing it right or the word would get out to not buy them.

    To break sch 80 PVC fittings you have to really crank on them. I don't know that I ever broke one. I only used 12" and 14" channel lock pliers to snug plastic fittings plus a half turn except for the metal male adapters under pressure tanks, then I used 24" pipe wrenches.

    I think any water line galvanized should be outlawed, it screws up the water quality. :D
  12. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,485
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    Blue?

    Most of the blue thread sealants are not rated for PVC, or any plastic, pipes or fittings.
  13. Bill Arden

    Bill Arden Computer Programmer

    Messages:
    584
    Location:
    MN, USA
    I have some fittings where a female CPVC has a metal fitting going into it, but this fitting has a rubber washer so it's not the threads that makes the seal.
  14. Mikey

    Mikey Aspiring Old Fart, EE, computer & networking geek

    Messages:
    2,714
    Location:
    Central Florida
    You had me worried for a minute :eek:. I use BLOCK, Hercules stock no. 15-707.

    Spec sheet at http://www.herchem.com/specs/block.pdf.

    Says " All purpose, high performance pipe joint and gasket sealing
    compound for use on metals including Aluminum, Black Iron, Brass,
    Copper, Stainless Steel, Galvanized Steel and on Plastics including​
    PVC and CPVC."
  15. estone

    estone New Member

    Messages:
    72
    Location:
    Colorado
    I used galvanized unions only on the tank T since the PVC ones wouldn't seal(and sounds like it's not recommeded), the rest is PVC. The well is only for outside watering. We have city water for the house.

    Hope the way I plumbed it will be o.k.?

    Attached Files:

  16. Wet_Boots

    Wet_Boots Sprinkler Guy

    Messages:
    798
    Location:
    Metro NYC
    There is a special blue sealant sold by the manufacturers of the PVC fittings, but almost no one stocks it. ($$$)
  17. speedbump

    speedbump Previous member

    Messages:
    4,540
    Location:
    Riverview, Fl.
    Nice looking job, but that check valve that is in line just before the pipe goes through the wall should be removed.

    bob...
  18. estone

    estone New Member

    Messages:
    72
    Location:
    Colorado
    Why is that? Is it because I have the CSV?
  19. estone

    estone New Member

    Messages:
    72
    Location:
    Colorado
    Speedbump, just want to clarify, and I'm sure you know, but that is the line coming in from the well. I Thought you needed a check valve so that water won't go back toward the pump?
  20. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    All submersible pumps have a check valve in or on their outlet, and that is the only one that is needed.

    Just suggestions for next time....

    I wouldn't have used unions or galvanized anything anywhere. Rarely does another part match up identically when you have to replace something, and PVC is easily cut and put back together with a coupler.

    I would not lay the gauge on its back, it can cause dirt build up over time. I would have screwed it into the the tank tee. Right now air is trapped in the elbow, which much less would be if the gauge was in the tee.

    I would have used the 3-4" brass nipple for the switch, that allows the clearance needed for the gauge under the switch.

    I wouldn't have used the brass nipples on the water line, I would have run PVC to and from the tank tee and the line coming in from the well, with as few fittings as possible.
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