Crazy things that pass inspections.

Discussion in 'Shower & bathtub Forum & Blog' started by augusta, Apr 18, 2011.

  1. augusta

    augusta New Member

    Messages:
    97
    Location:
    Augusta GA
    Have quite a few videos of quality of work, since I'm out in the field with a video camera anyway. Never knew what was "normal", "quality" or to code until I started visiting this site (and finally downloaded the IPC, which is used in my area). To stay out of potential hot water, I'll just post one of the full baths in my own home. How does this compare to your area? Is this stuff typical? This plumbing (rough-in and final) has been inspected by the City and passes in Augusta. Banjo music added for comedic effect.

    [video=youtube;iDjcvk6cU7E]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjprnxq0xdM[/video]
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2011
  2. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    21,814
    Location:
    New England
    FYI, that bar in the tub is stated and designed as a towel bar, not a safety bar. It's size, strength, and position would not qualify it as a safety bar, and it is not intended to be one. It's tough to put one in a one-piece enclosure since the walls are often not in contact with the studs, and since an ADA qualified safety bar must support 300#, that's not going to happen in a fiberglass/plastic surround without good blocking. that's why you can't easily grab it...

    Industry standards call for the valve and spout to be anchored, but I'm not sure it is actually a code issue. Most codes, though, do call for installation per the manufacturer's instructions, and they generally do call for them to be blocked.
  3. jimbo

    jimbo Plumber

    Messages:
    8,997
    Location:
    San Diego
    I agree with JAD that the plumbing inspection would not catch most of this. I think a good inspector on the rough would complain about the valve not secured....maybe not. The lucite bar is specifically designated as a towel bar, NOT a hand hold. People have used them as hand holds, usually ending up pulling it out of the sockets.

    A good builder has a final walkthru which should turn up a list of things like this. Apparently this builder does not care???

    Frankly the one piece push on stops are probably no worse than the one piece plum-qwik stops with integral corrugated flex. I have seen WAY to many of those fail if you look at them sideways, but builders have used them for decades.
  4. kalanikaau

    kalanikaau New Member

    Messages:
    12
    ROFL ! Could you have not matched to plumbing movement percussions in time to the banjo music ?? And I thought incompetent plumbers only existed here !
  5. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,263
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    1. I did NOT see the valve's trim ring moving 1" when you pulled on the handle, and most people do NOT yank on the valve when they turn it on, although the valve should have been anchored better. But, if it bothers you, the valve can be anchored once the big plate is removed.
    2. CPVC should NOT have been used between the valve and diverter spout, whether it was anchored or not. The installation instructions are very specific about that.
  6. augusta

    augusta New Member

    Messages:
    97
    Location:
    Augusta GA
    Mokume: Mighty fine community you live in. Was in Waikiki for a couple of weeks not too long ago. Cousin owns some property there. Pearl Harbor was sobering. North Shore is so beautiful that it didn't look real. Didn't want to leave.

    Interesting on the grab bar. Replacement parts are called "grab bars." How would you get use of a towel, or even a small rag when the bar is flush against the shower wall? Also curious to know if the holes for the "towel bar" are predrilled or not. If they were put just a few inches lower, you could have gotten some use out of the bar, if just for a small wet rag. Just an observation. I'll plus one you on the "towel bar" (good to know, kind of like - hey that seat belt is not a safety device, it's a belly hugger), but raise you a reversed hot/cold and shower head not blocked. Same bathroom. Video updated.

    [video=youtube;cjprnxq0xdM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjprnxq0xdM[/video]

    Instructions for tub spout specify copper and blocked for both spout and valve. No blocking for shower valve, shower head, and no blocking for tub spout (incorrectly done with CPVC which adds another element of looseness). However, these things pass inspections. Just trying to show here that, permit or not, this is what you get. No difference in quality of work. One's "legal" though.

    Funny how the blame game goes in real estate. Plumber blames the Builder (Builder made me use plastic shutoff valves and other cheap parts otherwise I wouldn't have gotten the bid). Builder blames the Buyer (as if the buyer knows what to look for). Buyer blames their Real Estate Agent. Agent blames the Home Inspector (or lack thereof). Who does the Home Inspector blame? Poor guy must have crazy high insurance.

    On new construction, Plumber should catch his own work, and Plumbing inspector for the County should be a 2nd "fail safe." Builder should be a 3rd point fail safe, and then plumbing inspection should be a piece of cake for the certified home inspector (4th fail safe). With all of those "professionals" on the job, they still can't crank out awesome work when they do this day in and day out. This isn't "nit picky" stuff that's being pointed out. Hilarious when Plumbers catch heat then immediately go for the ole' customer is a PITA routine. Why is that? How can that many people not get it right? And when everyone's putting out this type of work, they basically have a monopoly on shoddy work. What choice does the consumer have at this point?
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2011
  7. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    21,814
    Location:
    New England
    I'd consider going to the city council meeting and asking the question of why the home passed inspection when it obviously doesn't meet code nor is up to industry standards. Ask them why are you paying for the permit and inspection if the job isn't being done. Maybe a letter to the state building department asking the same thing.
  8. ESPwaterproducts

    ESPwaterproducts New Member

    Messages:
    2
    Location:
    Oregon
    I think you have a very valid point. People rely on inspectors to catch problems.
  9. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple I love these ACO Shower Drains - Best in Class

    Messages:
    3,806
    Location:
    North Vancouver, BC
    Bathroom Fails - ?? All inspections where passed...doesn't make sense.

    The requirements to build a proper shower are pretty straight forward. Follow all the steps and you will have a properly build shower that will serve you year after year.

    What's actually required and what is inspected are two separate items and if you are not careful and don't request a premium install you might get what's "Good Enough" and "Meets Inspection Requirements" and nothing more.

    I have some new clients who live in Caulfield, West Vancouver and their brand new family steam shower has failed in under a year. This shower passed all City Inspections.

    Sadly this leaves this family with no recourse and no steam shower to enjoy after a day on the North Shore Mountains.

    If your planning your next renovation take some extra time and understand how to build and how to spec a proper shower installation.

    John Whipple
    By Any Design Ltd.
    North Vancouver
  10. augusta

    augusta New Member

    Messages:
    97
    Location:
    Augusta GA
    Hazzard County

    City council? In Augusta? You mean this guy?
    boss-hogg5ps (Small).jpg

    In all seriousness, this guy was the former Mayor of Augusta.
    bosshoggaugusta.jpg
    He owns a hog barbecue restaurant. Can you guess what his nickname is?

    Know what happens when the anti-shoddy-work Home Inspector goes in to a home like this, and makes a report about 30 pages long? Builder and Plumber label Home Inspector a PITA (that's their goto move, or they will browbeat you like some of the plumbers do on this site - no disrespect to the one's that dont) and will then black-list the Home Inspector. They call him the "deal killer" Home Inspector.

    If a Real Estate Agent brings that same inspector out to the same Builder or to the same Plumbing co a second time, now the agent is black-listed. Nothing new there. Now, consumers have one less shot at getting "quality work." Who's going to take care of the consumer now? No one. They're on their own. They don't even know it.

    Taking the City Council route is like swinging at the wind. Show up at City Council and now you're labeled a "crazy PITA". If a known guy goes all City Council on them, he'll be black-listed by the City Council, too. As for the follow up with the State, based on the State's performance, it just isn't reasonable to assume they would do anything about it. I've been there before. Learned quite a bit about how they operate. It's all very tiring. Using a letter to the State as an idle threat towards the County is kind of laughable. I appreciate the suggestion, though. All I can seem to do is vent on this site, and try to get a good laugh (although it's not funny for the consumer).

    P.S. The spammers and blogging to sell services by "loosely relating" their stories would decline drastically if someone would install the nofollow addon in this forum. It's a must have. You're losing page rank, diluting threads/information, and inviting spammers without it.

    http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showthread.php?t=228614

    [EDIT] Turns out, the nofollow is built in to your version of VB. However, since I don't admin VB, I'm not sure if it works on signatures and thread bodies, or just thread bodies. The setting is here:
    Settings -> Options -> BBCode Settings
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2011
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