Copper drain line leaking at slab...how to replace?

Discussion in 'Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice, Tips & ' started by pghsebring, Oct 23, 2008.

  1. pghsebring

    pghsebring DIY Member

    Messages:
    97
    Location:
    Ohio
    Here is the problem: the copper drain line (1-5/8" OD) is leaking right where it meets the slab.

    Only 2 fixtures use this drain line. The kitchen sink, and the laundry room sink.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    I believe, per the picure below,there is a cast iron hub flush with the floor - but i'll have to break up a little concrete to find out.

    [​IMG]

    If there is a hub there, how do i go about replacing that small stack? Do i have to put in a whole 3" or 4" stack, when the only thing above the stack would be the kitchen sink? I plan on replacing the drain lines from the kitchen sink all the way to the floor, and i know i have to break up the wall a little, that doesn't bother me.

    If this were a new house, obvioulsly i'd put in a 3" or 4" stack, and vent it to the roof. But the current stack and vent is 1-5/8" OD.

    So can someone giveme a description of what size pipe to use, etc?

    The last time i went from a CI hub to PVC i used one of these:

    [​IMG]

    But what do i do with a 3" or 4" stack that is just going to a kitchen sink?
  2. pghsebring

    pghsebring DIY Member

    Messages:
    97
    Location:
    Ohio
    I wanted to include this pic incase anyone was unclear of where the leak was...

    [​IMG]
  3. pghsebring

    pghsebring DIY Member

    Messages:
    97
    Location:
    Ohio
    To clarify a little further...i made a diagram of the current plumbing.

    [​IMG]

    My question i guess is if i have a 3" hole to start with, where is the normal place to reduce the pipe to 2" or 1.5", whatever the size is for the kitchen sink? Right by the basement floor? Half way up the wall? By the ceiling? What is normal?

    Where would a cleanout be required on that stack?

    Oh - and what is the best tool to break up the slab around that pipe?
  4. Redwood

    Redwood Master Plumber

    Messages:
    7,450
    Location:
    Connecticut
    Hit the rental shop and get a rotary hammer.

    Once you have the pipe below exposed we can stop speculating and know how to repair it.
  5. Southern Man

    Southern Man DIY Hillbilly

    Messages:
    530
    Location:
    North Carolina
    Cut the pipe off flush with the floor. Use a cold chisel to chip away at the concrete around the pipe. Clean the outside of the iron off, find the leak, replace the part and use a Fernco coupler between the iron and the new PVC above.
  6. Cass

    Cass Plumber

    Messages:
    5,980
    Location:
    Ohio
    Bad idea...do not cut pipe...follow Redwoods correct advice...standard Fernco with 2 hose clamps not correct.

    Above ground you need this[​IMG]Part # 3001-150 for 1.5" copper to1.5" plastic

    If you end up doing the repair below ground you can use the other style Fernco but personaly I would stay with the one shown above.
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2008
  7. Redwood

    Redwood Master Plumber

    Messages:
    7,450
    Location:
    Connecticut
    I would not follow this advice!
  8. pghsebring

    pghsebring DIY Member

    Messages:
    97
    Location:
    Ohio
    Well, i broke the cement out of the pipe, and it was as i expected. The 1-5/8" pipe just went down and kind of sat in the middle of the pipe in the ground. The pipe in the ground is 4" ID, and has a flange that is 5.75" ID.

    So, how do i go about fixing this now? Use one of the donuts are shown above? Do i have to smash out the cement and cut the flange off and put a fernco in there? How do i transition down to the 2" pipe that i want to run?

    PS. There is a rag in that big pipe and i haven't cleaned it out yet, thats why it looks clogged. Its actually in very good condition.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
  9. pghsebring

    pghsebring DIY Member

    Messages:
    97
    Location:
    Ohio
    Would the best way to do this be by using a fernco P44U-205, 4 by 2 inch Compression Reducing Donut? Then i just run my new 2" PVC up the wall? Would this be allowed by code? I live in PA, i think we use 06 IBC, 06 IRC, and 06 IPC...

    http://www.hardwareandtools.com/invt/6207757

    [​IMG]
  10. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    22,015
    Location:
    New England
    The reducing donut should work. You must clean the hub out well. Note, you need to make fairly accurate measurements in order to get a donut that fits just right. Too tight, and it's a bear to get it in. Too loose, it can leak.
  11. pghsebring

    pghsebring DIY Member

    Messages:
    97
    Location:
    Ohio
    where/how do I get an accurate/custom sized donut? I went to the local box store and the 4 inch donut is too big to fit down in the pipe but too small to fit tightly in the large part of the pipe...the 3inch donut doesn't fit either...I didn't have this problem the last time I used one of these donuts...now what?
  12. Jay Mpls

    Jay Mpls Master plumber

    Messages:
    98
    Location:
    Minneapolis
    Call a plumbing supply house that sells to the public.Explain your dilemma and they will have a solution.There are different 'weights' of cast iron.If you can find an exposed section you will have an easier time.Different weights mean different sizes of gaskets.
    Consider a 4x4 hub gasket with a 4"clean out so if this thing ever plugs up you will have a fighting chance to give it a good cleaning.Then reduce down in plastic.BTW your picture almost looks as though the pipe is clay tile.
    Good luck!
  13. MACPLUMB 777

    MACPLUMB 777 TROJAN WORLDWIDE SALES RP

    Messages:
    679
    Location:
    Houston, Texas, United States
    Copper leaking at slab

    I don't think from your picture you are talking about a 4" open sewer
    if you have water standing in that pipe like it looks like you are looking at a 4" floor drain,
    if so all bets are off you need to jack up the concrete and tie into that drain after the p-trap under the concrete other wise you are looking at a whole brunch of service problems down the line and then still may have to
    break up concrete to correct problem if somebody gets a power snake broken
    in that pipe
  14. Redwood

    Redwood Master Plumber

    Messages:
    7,450
    Location:
    Connecticut
    Yea, Jerry's right.
    You need a full size cleanout there.
  15. pghsebring

    pghsebring DIY Member

    Messages:
    97
    Location:
    Ohio
    Well, i think i found the donut i can use, a fernco 150-305. It is a for any 4" ID pipe ("soil bore" CI i think they call it?), and converts it into a 3" PVC pipe.

    This is what i think can work....

    [​IMG]

    I'll go down and take a look if there's a P trap under there when i get a chance...i sure hope there isn't...this would have been the dumbest installation ever, consider the house was built 50 years ago and the kitchen sink has never moved - i can't imagine they have 2 traps on the same line...

    Does my picture look correct above?

    And whats the closest i should get to the wall with the 2" PVC pipe?
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2008
  16. pghsebring

    pghsebring DIY Member

    Messages:
    97
    Location:
    Ohio
    Still looking for responses....

    Does my picture look correct above?

    And whats the closest i should get to the wall with the 2" PVC pipe?

    And am i allowed to use those street elbows there?
  17. pghsebring

    pghsebring DIY Member

    Messages:
    97
    Location:
    Ohio
    Daily bump....

    So i looked down the drain, and there is no p-trap, it is just an elbow.

    [​IMG]

    BTW, about 5 feet away there is a floor drain that does have a p-trap.

    [​IMG]

    And i'm still looking for responses to my questions....

    Does my picture/diagram look correct?

    [​IMG]

    And whats the closest i should get to the wall with the 2" PVC pipe?

    And am i allowed to use those street elbows there?
  18. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,005
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    What I'm not seeing in your drawing is the vent for the downstairs laundry tray.
    If this was plumbed from scratch, you would have had a vent from the basement sink, going up to the second floor kitchen sink, and tying in above the counter height of the kitchen sink.
    Since this pipe was left out, you will at least need an AAV between the waste stack of the kitchen sink, and the trap of the laundry sink in the basement.

    You are better off doing offsets with 45 fittings.
    You could wye off for the upstairs sink below the tee for the L/T and then you could put the AAV above the santee.
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