Connecting 1 1/2 PVC to hub

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Graham Johnson

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Hello folks. I recently replaced 1 1/2 galvanized kitchen drain line with 1 1/2 PVC. I removed the original galvanized line which was inserted in to a vertical hub (cast iron perhaps?) After replacement, I inserted the 1 1/2 PVC into the same hub. You can see the setup in the attached picture. I'm curious of the 'proper' way to make this connection as the PVC inserted into the hub is snug but not leak proof. I've researched neoprene inserts such as Fernco but adding an insert will certainly narrow the opening so that the PVC will no longer fit.

Thanks in advance for any advice.
 

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I don't think there is a multi-tite or compression donut for your situation here. 1-1/2" is already rather small, if you must use one, you'll need to adapt the vertical PVC down to something even smaller like 1", only then you can get a rubber something in there to fit.

Basically you didn't demolish anything, other than replace an old vertical with the new PVC. Go ahead and seal it up with anything, plumber's putty, caulk, silicone, epoxy. You won't be burying it, so you can keep an eye on it. That's not going to leak any graywater since you have gravity keeping it all down, you're just doing this to make sure no gases come from it. I bet the old vertical was just snug in there without anything else either.
 
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hj

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1. That looks more like a 2" hub than a 1 1/2" one.
2. If so, a 2x1 1/2 "donut" would work
3. A plumber would just recalk the lead if you did what you did.
 

Graham Johnson

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Thanks for the replies. I think I might have this figured out but want some confirmation from you guys if you don't mind. It's likely that I do indeed have a 2" hub that is filled with oakum and lead which sealed in the old galv. I've attached a better photo of the hub with what I believe to be the dividing line between the cast iron 2" hub and the lead that was surrounding the old pipe. I'm thinking if I clean out all of the oakum and lead I should be able to use the 2" donut in the other attached picture.

Thoughts?
 

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Was it causing any problems before you removed the old vertical?

I bet it was fine.

Why would you want to disturb it even further? What are the actual benefits? Just because a rubber donut is pretty?

Think about what can go WRONG if you continue. You'll be digging deep in there with a costly jackhammer rental.

It's amazing how people here ask for advice, yet they already have their mind set to do what they wanted to in the first place.
 

Graham Johnson

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I don't have my mind made up, just asking for advice from people that have been down this path. I didn't realize there was lead until today when I saw some similar photos online. I'm all for leaving it alone and sealing around the plastic. Just trying to have a civil conversation here.
 

Reach4

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Does the photo in #1 represent the current situation?

Did you understand what "recalk the lead" means?
 

Graham Johnson

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Yes the photo in the original post is the current situation. By recalking the lead, I assume this would be accomplished by using silicone, putty, caulk, etc to seal off the small gap between the existing lead and the new PVC.
 

Reach4

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How much space is there? If the space is fairly tight already, there might be no additional material or heat involved. I am not a plumb er. I have not done nothing like this, and maybe my perception is very wrong.

If you go to about minute 7 of
you can get the idea of what I am thinking. The comments about the lead still being warm I don't think is critical to this operation.
 
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Jadnashua

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In insert anything into a CI hub that had a lead/oakum seal, you have to dig out ALL of the old lead and oakum first. Once you do that, you have some choices. Fernco makes a huge variety of incremental 'donuts' to seal your new PVC into that hub (well, assuming it is compatible in the first place). You need to carefully measure once you have the lead out to ensure you will have a proper seal to your new 1.5" pvc pipe. Maybe harder to find is a sealant made to be used with oakum in layers, properly tamped in place (do you have the right tools? Unlikely) of sealant and oakum to fill the voids and make the joint tight.

If you have enough room, you could rent a CI pipe cutter, cut off the hub, then use a banded coupler to attach the two dissimilar materials together. You'd need a short section of PVC the nominal 2", a reducer, and your 1.5" pipe would fit into the reducer while the banded coupling holds the short stub of 2" and the CI together. All of those choices will meet code. Or, you could get someone to lead in a new piece of CI, and couple it to your pvc.
 

Gary Swart

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If you insist on DIY, you must get all of the lead out of the hub and then find the right insert. You are asking for trouble if you try to seal the joint with patch. A leaded joint is made with molten lead that is poured into the joint which requires a tool that forms a dam to hold the lead until is sets. I'm sure there is a proper name for this tool, but it isn't going to be found in the big box store, and dealing with molten lead is not something a DYI should even consider. A plumber would know what was needed and be able to do this fairly quickly and it would be done right.
 

Jadnashua

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Why do you say that?
IF you can insert the new pipe AND have the right tools, you MIGHT get by without tearing everything out. Most DIY'ers do not have the skills or tools, and the act of removing the original pipe on what might be a very old joint, who knows the state of the oakum in the joint which is what really makes the seal...the lead stabilizes and holds it in place.
 

Graham Johnson

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Thanks for all the good advice folks. I really appreciate it. The old lead joint wasn't holding the galvanized pipe at all. It slid right out without any effort.
 
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Graham Johnson

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I really don't know. I've only lived here for a year. I do know that the PVC does leak around the connection to the hub when the water flow is more than the CI pipe can handle. For example when the dishwasher is draining and the kitchen sink is running at the same time.
 

Graham Johnson

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Yes, I've definitely come to understand how fragile the CI hub can be and understand that it requires a lot of patience and gentleness to remove the lead. If I go down this path, I'll be sure to take it slow. Regarding the comment about the different types on CI hubs not being compatible with donuts, is there a way to determine the type by looking for markings?
 
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