Confused about which water softener

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mislora

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Hello everyone,
First I would like to apologize for my lack of knowledge, I honestly have read through alot of this forum and I think it has made me more confused then when I first arrived here. So my dilemma is my Kenmore all in one water softener unit does not appear to be operating correctly. This week I have had multiple people out to my home and each has said that there is no difference in my water either bypassed or non bypassed hardness rating. I have gotten some extremely high quotes on units to have installed and decided I am going to try to do this myself. Here is what I need that water softener to cover.
People in home: 2-3 depending on our kid if they are at home
Hardness: 28
Iron: 1.6
Chlorine is anywhere from .4-1.0 according to our report, but you can smell it when the faucet is turned on
We have 2 showers, 2 toilets, 1 kitchen and one dishwasher

I am pretty sure our copper piping is 3/4 of an inch. Right now we have a plastic bypass on the back of the Kenmore water conditioner. We have been experience scaling on our fixtures and shower glass is getting spots. We had Sears install the current unit 5 years ago, and they had to return the next day because when we ran some water, resin came out into our water. They crossed the plumbing and had to come back to fix it. They didnt replace the unit and it never ran properly after that. As everyone is, we are on a fixed budget and trying to get our dollars to stretch. Which unit should I look for, what is the correct size. 2 salesman from different companies tried selling us a 32000 grain unit. One is a Kinetico 2060 which he wanted 1947.00 plus 175.00 for the install. The other was a Hellenbrand E3 32000 unit for 700 plus 150 for the install. The calculations I made say we should be using a 48000 unit. Any help provided is greatly appreciated. Thanks
 

Reach4

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Having iron in chlorinated water is not normal. Where did you get your report? Do you get a lot of orange color in your toilet tanks? Do you taste iron in the water?

This is city water or from a water company I presume, unless you have your own chlorinator. See if they have a water report that includes iron, hardness, and chlorine levels.

Using your numbers, it looks like 2 cubic ft ("64000 grain") is as small as you want to go. Tell us more about your water and where you got the numbers. Click Inbox above.
 
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ditttohead

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Agreed, if you have chlorine, the iron will precipitate out into a solid (Rust). This is easily filterable with a sediment filter. You will need a far larger softener than the big box all in one units have. A larger system will greatly increase your systems efficiency. If you have iron at that level, an iron reduction system would be highly recommended ahead of the softener.

More info on your water please.
 

mislora

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Here is the report. It is a city well.
 

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Reach4

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I would go ahead and get a Hach 5B hardness test. You can use it before buying a system, and you will use it later to check the effectiveness. You can also use it to tune settings.

If you get a whole house sediment filter, I think I would use the Pentek 10 x 4.5 inch housing for this. There are a lot of available non-proprietary cartridges available. There will be less pressure drop than through a smaller filter. The smaller ones sold locally may indeed be enough, but I tend to prefer to overdo than to under-do for that kind of thing. On the other hand, it is handy to be able to buy the cartridges locally. Figure to get this installed when the softener goes in. If you get the Big Blue, I would also get a spare O-ring and silicone grease to lube the ring when you change cartridge probably annually.

Your scanned water report is a little hard to read, but I think I did. The iron says 0-2.3 ppm. I am thinking that the high reading was taken before the chlorine had enough time to act. By the time the water makes it to your house, there will have been a lot of contact time.
 
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mislora

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I would go ahead and get a Hach 5B hardness test. You can use it before buying a system, and you will use it later to check the effectiveness. You can also use it to tune settings.

If you get a whole house sediment filter, I think I would use the Pentek 10 x 4.5 inch housing for this. There are a lot of available non-proprietary cartridges available. There will be less pressure drop than through a smaller filter. The smaller ones sold locally may indeed be enough, but I tend to prefer to overdo than to under-do for that kind of thing. On the other hand, it is handy to be able to buy the cartridges locally. Figure to get this installed when the softener goes in. If you get the Big Blue, I would also get a spare O-ring and silicone grease to lube the ring when you change cartridge probably annually.

Your scanned water report is a little hard to read, but I think I did. The iron says 0-2.3 ppm. I am thinking that the high reading was taken before the chlorine had enough time to act. By the time the water makes it to your house, there will have been a lot of contact time.
So if I understand you correctly, my home needs a sediment filter plus a water softener? I had multiple companies out to test my water, and they all were testing right around 28 hardness. I was hoping I could just install a softener alone and have my drinking water from my RO system? My question is why was I only quoted 32000 grain units for my home by these other companies. They all told us it was more than large enough and that they would " set am extra backwash" for my water type. They came and used a bunch of test tunes and strips. Also had a little scale type thing where he put my tap water in and it registered at 550 and said see king water should be under 250. Thanks
 

Reach4

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Need? Not really. The softener itself will do some sediment filtering. I don't know if that is harder on the softener or not. Look at your aerator screens. Do you see stuff, that would have been stopped by a filter? Plus a filter will stop stuff that you cannot see, and I presume much of that makes it through a softener. If you put the filter in and a year later you go to change the cartridge, and you see nothing on the cartridge, then you can suspect you wasted your $120 or so. It still had value I think.

Why did they quote a "32000 grain" unit?
  1. I suspect you said you were price-sensitive, and they did not want to scare you off with what they would charge for a larger unit.
  2. You said your old 3/4 cuft softener was adequate for you for several years.
  3. "32000 grain" is marketing convention for a softener with 1 cuft of resin. You can get about 30000 grains of softening from 1 cuft if you use 15 pounds of salt per cuft. However for better salt efficiency, you would usually be better off using 6 lbs of salt/cuft and get 20000 grains of softening per cuft. So with 2 cuft ("64000 grain"), you can get 40000 grains of softening with 12 pounds of salt. If you wanted more capacity, you might go to 8 or 10 lb/sqft. With 10*2=20 pounds of salt, you would get 48000 grains of capacity.

There are advantages to a big-enough unit besides saving salt. You regenerate only at night. At 2 AM, the softener checks if it has enough remaining capacity for another day. If the answer is no, it regenerates. You might leave an average of 1/2 day of softening unused. If you are regenerating every 8 days, that is less significant than if you regenerate every 4 days.

A bigger unit gives a a bonus of being able to handle a higher flow rate while still softening successfully.

A conventional softener has the advantage of being more repairable. The all-in-one would have the advantage of saving space, and it is OK for many people. It is too small for you. The brine tank can be located away from the softener some distance if that helps your logistics.
 
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Reach4

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Would I be OK with a 48000 fleck 7000?
Let me know if that would be OK for my use. Thanks
Going up to 2 cuft would not add much to the cost.
 
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Reach4

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Did you screw the controller to the tank, or did it come pre-assembled? I hope you did not cross-thread the tank. Did it take a lot of force?


I would contact the seller and ask what to do.
 
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