Combustion analysis and programming on Alpine 80k btu?

Discussion in 'Boiler Forum' started by thekid1, Mar 29, 2014.

  1. thekid1

    thekid1 New Member

    Messages:
    12
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    Hey guys,

    I had recently installed an Alpine 80k btu condensing boiler. I have been having no luck finding someone to do a final tune to this boiler. I need a combustion analysis done and someone to program it so it runs at optimal performance. It runs great now but sometimes upon startup, there is a howl for about 5 seconds, then it goes away. I have read somewhere that getting this boiler properly fine tuned is exactly the issue. Can anyone recommend a competent contractor that is actually experienced in this area? I am located in Long Island. How do I choose the right place to come do this? What are some important questions to ask? I have tried to have burnham themselves come but they said they do not do that. They had given me a number to a plumbing outfit but when i called they said they only do new construction. Thanks guys.

    Edit: it is hooked up to natural gas.
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2014
  2. Tom Sawyer

    Tom Sawyer In the Trades

    Messages:
    3,311
    Location:
    Maine
    Who installed the boiler?
  3. thekid1

    thekid1 New Member

    Messages:
    12
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    I have installed the boiler. Its hooked up to natural gas by the way.
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2014
  4. DonL

    DonL Jack of all trades Master of one

    Messages:
    4,511
    Location:
    Houston, TX
    That could be why nobody can do it. Did You get a permit ?

    It may be best to check with your Gas Company.

    They can do it.


    Good Luck.
  5. Tom Sawyer

    Tom Sawyer In the Trades

    Messages:
    3,311
    Location:
    Maine
    We wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole and there's damn few companies that would. Spend an extra $1,500.00 or so, take a couple years worth of HVAC classes and do your own analysis.
  6. BadgerBoilerMN

    BadgerBoilerMN Master Hot Water Mpls,MN

    Messages:
    303
    Location:
    Minneapolis
    They certainly cannot do it!

    I would not have a gas company "tech" work on one of my condensing boilers for love or money.
    Beg a smart guy who sells, installs and services this particular model to come and commission the boiler for you.
    Don't balk when he gives you the price. You already "saved" all the money you can.

    There are no DIY condensing boilers.
  7. DonL

    DonL Jack of all trades Master of one

    Messages:
    4,511
    Location:
    Houston, TX

    I guess that depends on the area.

    Around here, You can buy a gas appliance from the gas company and they will install and set it up. Or contract the work out.


    They do have the tools and know how.
  8. mage182

    mage182 Member

    Messages:
    71
    Location:
    NY
    I live in East Northport and have spent the last 3 years trying to find someone competent to do a combustion analysis and/or a general maintenance call to tune/clean the system and have gotten no where. The top 5 contacts for our area listed on the Burnham website told me they don't deal in condensing boilers. After spending a lot of time with the manual I've gotten pretty good at tuning. Cleaning is a whole different process, I may give it a shot in the spring.

    I doubt National Grid will want anything to do with you. All they want to do is sell you gas.
  9. nhmaster3015

    nhmaster3015 Master Plumber

    Messages:
    836
    Location:
    The granite state
    How do you get "pretty good" at tuning without a combustion analyzer?
  10. DonL

    DonL Jack of all trades Master of one

    Messages:
    4,511
    Location:
    Houston, TX

    Many of the newer systems have sensors built in.

    You just need to know how to decode the error messages that they send.

    If you have a real major problem, The system should shut down.


    Gas is not something that you should play with, Unless you have the proper knowledge, and tools.
  11. BadgerBoilerMN

    BadgerBoilerMN Master Hot Water Mpls,MN

    Messages:
    303
    Location:
    Minneapolis
    Please show me a gas company 'technician' with condensing boiler factory training certification...
  12. Bill Shack

    Bill Shack 30years plumbing 10years plumbing inspector

    Messages:
    53
    Location:
    montreal quebec Canada
    I used to get the company i bought the boiler from to do the final inspection and adjustment, try them and next time get them to include this final adjustment when you buy the boiler.
  13. mage182

    mage182 Member

    Messages:
    71
    Location:
    NY
    By timing cycles and adjusting the max fan speed and/or curve so that indirect calls complete in only one cycle and heating calls last as long as possible.

    I have yet to find a contractor out of the dozen or so I've called that reacted intelligently when I mentioned combustion analysis, which considering it's mentioned in the install manual is sad.
  14. nhmaster3015

    nhmaster3015 Master Plumber

    Messages:
    836
    Location:
    The granite state
    That tells you nothing about the combustion itself. For that, you need a combustion analyzer. Big bucks
  15. BadgerBoilerMN

    BadgerBoilerMN Master Hot Water Mpls,MN

    Messages:
    303
    Location:
    Minneapolis
    This is unfortunately all-too common. Still I have found good people all over N. America for my clients seeking local talent.
  16. thekid1

    thekid1 New Member

    Messages:
    12
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    This is so true. Any plumbing outfit I call when I mention combustion analysis, says they do it, but they are very uninformative about the topic which leads me to believe they have no clue. This is exactly the issue I am having, not that I cant get someone to do it.
  17. Tom Sawyer

    Tom Sawyer In the Trades

    Messages:
    3,311
    Location:
    Maine
    PHP:
    I can't imagine anyone spending a couple grand on an instrument they don't know how to use. They know how, they just don't want too. What's in it for them? An hours labor? BFD. From a contractors point of view, you bought the stuff, you installed it, you buy the testing equipment and you go to school to figure out what to do with it. Things homeowners never think about in their quest to do things I expensively. When you pay a professional, they have the equipment and the knowledge to use it.
  18. DonL

    DonL Jack of all trades Master of one

    Messages:
    4,511
    Location:
    Houston, TX
    When I worked for Sears the Techs had use of a combustion analyzer, Many had them on the truck. And they were trained and licensed to use them. Many times the Gas valve needs calibrated, so you need more calibrated tools.

    Now that everyone is sue happy, Most do not want the responsibility when they did not install the unit.

    Insurance will not cover stuff that you install or work on, unless you have a licenses.

    Many places will not pay the fee, required by law every year to get the equipment calibrated.

    It does vary from state to state.


    And a "plumbing outfit" is not the place to look for this type of work.
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2014
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