Closet Flange Replacement - Lead, Cast Iron and Brass

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OldNorthState

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First off, let me say that this site is great, much more informative than any other source I have found.

I was replacing a lead toilet flange in a house I recently purchased. My home was built around '59 and the bathroom has a tiled floor with about 3" of concrete followed by wood decking (I think) directly underneath. After reading about replacing the flange online, I started removing it, but quickly realized that it was much larger than any of the guides suggested. During removal, a couple of inches down I hit what I believe to be a "brass ferrule" that I've seen mentioned in other posts on this site. The flange has a finished basement so I have no access from below without breaking open some drywall.

My initial plan was to remove the flange and to get a retrofit closet flange to make the repair. However I quickly realized that the brass ferrule is way too far down for a standard replacement flange from Home Depot or Lowes. After a bit of searching, I found and purchased this guy from Sioux Chief which apparently is extendable.

http://www.siouxchief.com/Resource_/ProductMedia/116/Push-Tite%20Extension%20Instruction%20Sheet%206-03.pdf

However based on what I've read on the site I have a couple of questions:

1) Are the brass ferrules typically the same inside diameter of the cast iron pipes? It looks to me like it is slightly wider which is making me second guess my choice of flanges.

2) Has anyone had experience with the replacement flange I’m attempting to use?

3) Is it best to just have the brass removed and put in a donut which I've seen recommended in other posts on this site?

Honestly, since reading a lot of posts I realize that I'll need to do a bit of drilling to get the flange mounted to the concrete. I'm thinking that this alone may be worth getting a plumber to come out and put on a new flange to get it done in one shot.

I'll post a photo when I get home this evening so you can see what I am talking about.

Any advice/guidance would be great! Thanks!
 

Gary Swart

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As you know, this is a site for DIY assistance. There are many plumbing tasks that, with a little guidance, can be undertaken successfully by DIY. However, there comes a point when the scale of the job, the complexities, and the special tools and/or training make it difficult or even impossible to provide the assistance one needs to do the job properly. Each of us has our own ability limitations as well. Often the cost of a plumber to do what is for him a relatively simple task is far less than what we would spend in time, wasted materials, and damage to adjacent surroundings. This may well be the case here. Plumbers often know how to access what to you or me seem impossible. Dealing with flange replacement with possible floor damage can make hiring a plumber a wise choice.
 

Cacher_Chick

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The biggest problem with these push-in replacement flanges is that they have a tendency to leak, particularly when the drain line backs up.

More often than not the best solution is to go back to the nearest hub in the cast iron and replace everything from the flange to the hub.
 

Hackney plumbing

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The biggest problem with these push-in replacement flanges is that they have a tendency to leak, particularly when the drain line backs up.

More often than not the best solution is to go back to the nearest hub in the cast iron and replace everything from the flange to the hub.

We use to have alot of those lead toilet arms here but most have been replaced. 20 years ago I was replacing one of those every couple weeks. Some are a total nightmare.

All of these homes are on piers with a 18"-60" crawlspace....no basements. Most are 18" to 24" so not alot of room to work. These bathrooms had 8" thick floors that were not concrete but more like a cement with wire running all through it. I dunno what they used but it was harder than most concrete I've broke. Tile on top of that. Plaster walls.

The tee for the toilet would be cast iron and the toilet arm lead. Problem was that the cast iron tee would be encased in the floor and all you could see was the bottom of the lead arm flush with the bottom of the floor.

To repair it would cut the wall above and cut the pipe off under the house. Then take a sledge hammer and break the old cast iron out and replace it with pvc.

The fittings would all be stacked up under the house so you ended up having to dig a hole in the crawlspace to get enough room to remove a fitting properly.

I do not miss doing them at all and it would suit me to never do another one. It wasn't the plumbing part that was hard it was the 18" crawlspaces....somtimes less than that and you would have to dig a way to the problem by laying on your stomach and using a trenching spade and digging a trench wide and deep enough for you to crawl through until you reach the pipes. Somtimes we cut holes in the floors in closest wood floor. somtimes we ran out of room to out the dirt and had to load it into buckets and have another guy drag it out from under the house.
 

Terry

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I do not miss doing them at all and it would suit me to never do another one. It wasn't the plumbing part that was hard it was the 18" crawlspaces....somtimes less than that and you would have to dig a way to the problem by laying on your stomach and using a trenching spade and digging a trench wide and deep enough for you to crawl through until you reach the pipes. Somtimes we cut holes in the floors in closest wood floor. somtimes we ran out of room to out the dirt and had to load it into buckets and have another guy drag it out from under the house.
Hackney Plumbing

And they say plumbers are paid too much!

In the Seattle area, it is normally easier then that. There are some crawls I've seen, where being the claustrophobic person I am, just let those jobs go.

I don't see the Sioux Chief fitting working with lead. That's an extender for solid pipe, and lead is not solid.
We remove the lead from the cast hub, or remove the cast tee.
 

OldNorthState

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Thanks

Thanks for the responses and guidance... I've decided to let a pro handle this one and he's coming out on Friday.

Wes
 
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