Cleanouts Questions

Discussion in 'Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice, Tips & ' started by abrahuang, Sep 30, 2007.

  1. abrahuang

    abrahuang New Member

    Messages:
    19
    I am replacing cast ion pipes with schedule 40. To route the toilet branch from vertical to horizontal, I used a Y. Can I replace the Y with 45 elbow, or a 90 long sweep, saving the cleanout?
    http://picasaweb.google.com/abrahuang/HouseBasementPlumbing/photo#5116227117896496402

    Another cleanout question is when I was replacing the vent part, because of the change of direction from the original cast ion pipe, the horizontal end was blocked by the chimney. Since the neoprene 90 long sweep elbow can be disassambled easily, we can always access the section of pipe from this point. Is a cleanout still required in such case?
    http://picasaweb.google.com/abrahuang/HouseBasementPlumbing/photo#5116231047791572258
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2007
  2. BAPlumber

    BAPlumber Plumber

    Messages:
    227
    Location:
    Vashon, Washington
    It's tough to say with the differances in codes from area to area.

    In my area, to the first question, a long turn 90 would be okay as long as there is a clean out at the base of the stack.

    I don't know of any area where the rubber, furnco 90's, are legal. If the clean out was blocked I'd go down stream and install one.
  3. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,647
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    drains

    1. No code will allow that rubber elbow.
    2. You can change the Y to a long radius elbow, as long as the cleanout is relocated, or there is one elsewhere in the line.
    3. Unless your block foundation is tilted, the line to the Y is backpitched.
  4. is there a vent in the toilet line above what the photo shows?

    if you haven't connected all this yet, and the photos just show a simulation or a dry fit prior to gluing, then consider putting the toilet cleanout higher up, like at the previous corner where there is a 45degree bend right now.

    You can also re-do that toilet line with a straight line using a Wye at the stack, and redo the sink line with a connection higher up too.

    david
  5. GrumpyPlumber

    GrumpyPlumber Licensed Grump

    Messages:
    1,404
    Location:
    Licensed Grump
    HJ caught what I saw...there's a back pitch on the horizontal toilet drain.
    Open the end cleanout and bad things will happen.
  6. abrahuang

    abrahuang New Member

    Messages:
    19
    Hi, Geniescience, there is no vent for the toilet branch; it is 4 feet from the flange to stack. Is it still good to replace the Tee with Wye? An existing cleanout is on the stack just above ground. The horizontal 90 vent bend connects to a 1 1/2 vent for a basement sink(the little white thing at the conner). How high can I raise the sink Tee in this case? Do I need at least 6" inch between the Tee and the branch vent for basement sink?
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2007
  7. abrahuang

    abrahuang New Member

    Messages:
    19
    BA, hj and Grumpy:
    Don't worry about the back pitch, it's a dry fit, so "something" is not there yet:), but I will make sure this will not really happen.
    I have a cleanout at the base of the stack, so I guess I will change the Y with a long radius elbow. How if a Wye instead of Tee on the stack? Will that cause "break of vent"? I don't have other pipes connected onto the toilet branch, so would the break matter?
    It seems nobody favors the 90 rubber bend. It shoud be banned from the market, so people like me won't be enticed to buy it:) I will change it to a rubber coupling to a plastic 90 bend and install a Wye with cleanout just next to the 90 bend in the down stream.
  8. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    22,019
    Location:
    New England
    Anything above ground needs to be a nohub, metal reinforced coupling.
  9. uh-oh. Bigger problem in sight now. Not sure if I can explain it in just a few words.

    With no vent, that toilet line shouldn't sink so low down before it gets connected to the stack. Regardless of whether or not it is attached with a Tee or a Wye. When the toilet waste line remains in the same horizontal plane (because no vent), then a Tee is the right fitting to use.

    I guess this means the whole thing gets redone from scratch, keeping the toilet line in the same plane, and bringing in the (vented) bathroom sink line wherever it will fit best, even maybe crossing over to come in from the other side. Work on the right geometry to get the toilet line to the stack with a minor slope, and then work on the vented bathroom sink line after that. -- AFAIK.

    david
  10. GrumpyPlumber

    GrumpyPlumber Licensed Grump

    Messages:
    1,404
    Location:
    Licensed Grump
    Right Dave, a closets standpipe shouldn't exceed 20" without a vent.
  11. abrahuang

    abrahuang New Member

    Messages:
    19
    David: I loweredd the toilet waste by 45 degree to the horizontal Wye. How does it looks this time? I used the fittings on hands, but I can lower the toilet waste before it goes horizontal too when got the long turn elbow. I don't know how it is going to affect the restriction of standpipe.
    http://picasaweb.google.com/abrahuang/HouseBasementPlumbing/photo#5116595591730754866

    Grumpy: Can you further explain the standpipe?

    Many thanks for you guys!
  12. patrick88

    patrick88 Plumber

    Messages:
    836
    Location:
    Webster Ma.
    I would not set it up that way. I would lower your other branch line and place the toilet above it. I would come off the stack to the toilet as straight as you can get then use a 90 or wye with a 45 and an end clean out.

  13. abrahuang

    abrahuang New Member

    Messages:
    19
    It will be good if I can raise the toilet line, a local plumber told me to connect toilet line to the stack first(is it because waste from sink is good to flush toilet waste , or if save heavy pipes the same time, or both?), so I followed his instruction. Now it seems not so critical.
    There is a sink on the cleanout side that is gonna to be revented. After rising, I'd like to connect it after the toilet Wye, which is now connected upto the 2" Tee. Could you see any problem with this plan?
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2007
  14. patrick88

    patrick88 Plumber

    Messages:
    836
    Location:
    Webster Ma.
    If you are putting the toilet above the 4"X2" branch that sounds good. Keep this as short and straight as you can. Putting all those fittings in the toilet drop was a bad choice. The best rule of thumb is to "use the least fittings as you can". If a plumber put that in and charged you for each fitting you would probably flip because of the cost of the fittings. Just think if it looks wrong it is wrong.

    Yes putting the 4"X4" inplace of the 4"X2" is a better choice and make sure you use a 90 for the toilet not a bunch of fittings. You do have the choice of a wye and 45 with a clean out.
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2007
  15. abrahuang

    abrahuang New Member

    Messages:
    19
    It's much clearer now. I am going to make the changes and show you the photo asap. Thank you so much!
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2007
  16. abrahuang

    abrahuang New Member

    Messages:
    19
  17. no. Put the tub drain into the sink drain which is vented. The reason why to do it that way is because that line is vented.

    Keep the toilet line high and flat -- flat with a minor slope of approx. 1/4" drop per running foot. The reason why to do it that way is because the line is NOT vented. I repeat the toilet waste drain pipe is not vented. This is why it should not drop. Keep it flat and put into the stack (which is vented!) by using a SanTee or equivalent, not a Wye (which is a drop).

    your question in a previous post:
    is confusing to me. The best answer might be "Neither of these two. It is because of the fact that an UNvented line stays flat."

    Abraham you also said,
    "...There is a sink on the cleanout side that is gonna to be revented. After rising, I'd like to connect it after the toilet Wye, which is now connected up to the 2" Tee. Could you see any problem with this plan?"
    -- which i may or may not have understood.

    But, I do see the word Wye in your words.... uh-oh. --- Keep the sink and tub tied together (similar to how they were in your first photos) because there is at least one vent above that line, above the sink, which the tub and sink both benefit from.

    all this is how i see it, but Master Plumbers may tell you more, or something different.

    David
  18. patrick88

    patrick88 Plumber

    Messages:
    836
    Location:
    Webster Ma.
    I would not do the shower drain like that. The way you did it takes it right out of code because it is a "S" trap. When you run water down that drain it will siphon dry.
  19. abrahuang

    abrahuang New Member

    Messages:
    19
    It seems my previous questions were "cleaned-out", but it escalated to vent questions. I should oringinate a new post on my questions on vents soon, so people having respiration difficulties can learn from my problems.
  20. abrahuang

    abrahuang New Member

    Messages:
    19
    I am going to have the toilet line vented by connecting it to the old vent to roof. I couldn't show this in photo because it was blocked by the old cast iron pipe. I was told to need a re-vent for the sink too, so I am going to bore holes and make a re-vent connected in attic. I will cut the cast iron pipes in days and let the picture speek. I will then have a couple of questions on venting, a more interesting topic.
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