Clack WS1 Programming Recomendations

Discussion in 'Water Softener Forum, problems, installation and r' started by farmboy101, Jun 4, 2010.

  1. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    How do you control the dose?
  2. Bob999

    Bob999 In the Trades

    Messages:
    448
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    It is time for another fact check to see of Slusser's assertions stand up to examination. Slusser says that "It is the depth of the column that counts for constant SFR ..."

    On his website and in this forum in various posts he asserts the following figures (column depth is my addition):

    1 ft3 softener (9 inch diameter tank) SFR=9 Column depth = 27"
    1.25 ft3 softener (10 inch diameter tank) SFR=10 Column depth = 27.5"
    1.5 ft3 softener (10 inch diameter tank) SFR = 12 Column depth = 33"
    2 ft3 softener (12 inch diameter tank) SFR = 13 Column depth = 30.5"
    2.5 ft3 softener (13 inch diameter tank) SFR = 18 Column depth = 32.5"

    Note: Column depth is computed assuming gravel underbed is used and fills the hemisphere at the bottom of the tank and neglects the displacement of the tube.

    Now if Slusser's assertion that column depth is what counts it would be expected that the softener with the greatest column depth would have the greatest SFR and the softener with the least column depth would have the least SFR. That is clearly NOT the case as the data above shows.

    So once again an assertion by Slusser fails the fact check.
  3. Bob999

    Bob999 In the Trades

    Messages:
    448
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    The spec sheet for standard high capacity resin shows performance for flows within a range that extends up to approximately 5 gal per minute per cubic foot of resin. The performance at 5 gallon per minute exceeds what is necessary or desired for most residential installations. The specification sheets also provide data as to the degradation in performance in the form of increased hardness leakage as flows increase above 5 gallon per minute per cubic foot of resin. Using that information I have determined that 8 gallon per minute per cubic foot of performance provides what I consider to be satisfactory performance.

    What is important is that it is the VOLUME of resin in relation to the volume of water flowing through the the resin bed that determines performance (hardness leakage) provided that the bed depth is within the specified RANGE. To put it another way bed depth is very much a secondary consideration within a defined range.
  4. farmboy101

    farmboy101 New Member

    Messages:
    46
    Location:
    Vancouver Island
    The drip wick rated is at 12cc. Im sure the manufacturer(ResUP) must have calculated the various doses for the 12cc and 30cc wicks as those are the only 2 sizes I have seen listed. I was supplied a 12cc wick with the 2 cuft resin bed so I hope somebody knew what the hell they were doing when they sent it. I can also add the cleaner directly into the brine tank as per the instructions on the bottle. I have never seen Iron Out locally. Where do you get it down there, at a grocery or hardware store?? You seem to opposed to an automatic feeder system that uses resup or the like. Are they not as effective as Iron out?
  5. Akpsdvan

    Akpsdvan In the Trades

    Messages:
    1,482
    Location:
    Alaska
    Drip feeders have been around for years and yes they do work.
    If you can get the ResUp locally but not the iron out then use the Resup.. You might have to add a little extra say once a year to the brine tanks brine well, but you will learn your system and what you need to do get the best out of it.
    I have seen the iron out in the big box stores here along with local hardware store, but remember that we are in different countries and there are some different rules as to what can and can not be sold.

    Some like Resup while others like Iron out, I have used both and then there are times that I use Citric acid in place of either Resup or Iron out.

    Each well is a bit different and some times one has to use different ways of getting to the same end.
  6. Bob999

    Bob999 In the Trades

    Messages:
    448
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    The 12cc rating is per day and if you have your softener set up to regenerate approximately every 8 days the dispenser will add approximately 3.2 oz (12cc=0.4 oz). This rate is approximately in the middle of the recommended maintence treatment for a 2 cubic foot softener (2-4 oz).

    Alternatively, if you don't want to use the Res Care with every regeneration, you can simply add it manually on the schedule you determine. In my experience Res Care works better than Iron Out. That experience is based on water conditions in my area and perhaps others have different experiences with different water conditions.

    Addition: Ak posted as I was typing this note and as I understand his post he has found that the relative effectiveness of different chemicals does vary with water conditions. So use the Res Care and if it works for you (likely will since it is sold in your area) then stick with it.
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2010
  7. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    Only a few months ago when we got into this subject you said you held to the 5 gpm/cuft, now at least you have raised the 5 to 8 gpm/cuft but, how many softeners have you sized for a constant SFR of 8 gpm/cuft and how long have they been in use and, where is the documentation you used to come up with 8 gpm/'cuft?

    And as you should know that leakage is stated in ppm or mg/l for high commercial and industrial softeners, residential softeners use grains per gallon.

    Yes and the bed depth is the most critical part unless you want us to believe you could have a wider than deeper bed and still get the same constant SFR gpm out of it.
  8. farmboy101

    farmboy101 New Member

    Messages:
    46
    Location:
    Vancouver Island
    I do have a CS version valve after all

    Ok bob999, after going there and getting the manual for a CS version I discovered that I HAVE the CS version.

    The computer programs exactly like the manual and is set for P7 for regeneration. I unlocked the computer using the sequence of buttons as stated by the manual.

    The one I posted came from the Aquatell site as I did not get a manual with the unit and must be out of date and or wrong because I asked Aquatell pre purchase if the valve was the CS and they said yes it was.


    So I have entered all of the values except for changing the P #. What should it be?? WS1.jpg
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2010
  9. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    IMO there is nothing better to clean iron off resin than Iron Out, Super Iron Out or Rust Out. Here any hardware or big box or grocery store or plumbing or pump supply house usually has it.

    So with your 12 cc wick, how many ounces are going to be used in say 8 days between regenerations?
    12 Cubic Centimetre(s) = 0.422340102 Fluid Ounce(s)from
    http://convert.french-property.co.uk/index.php
  10. farmboy101

    farmboy101 New Member

    Messages:
    46
    Location:
    Vancouver Island
    I have a CS version after all. What P number do you recommend?? It is set to P-7 now.


    WS1.jpg
  11. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    Maybe it's just a lack of detail but previously you said; "These are the instructions that Aquatell say to program the WS1 at. The progrmming does not operate exactly like the instructions say but I am able to get all of the settings to display and change the values." and you included doing the dn instruction.

    .......
    8. Use the UP and DOWN buttons to set the flashing value to read “dn†and then
    press NEXT.

    Now you say you had to Unlock the valve to program it and then you find where it asks for a P number. And that means there is no dn setting. One or the other can not be. And it is very difficult to lock or unlock the valve without the instructions so how did it get locked?

    Aquatell should have told you what P number to use and the K and salt dose lbs. We'll see what number Bob suggests.
  12. farmboy101

    farmboy101 New Member

    Messages:
    46
    Location:
    Vancouver Island

    My mistake about all of the values. I could not find the dn and not being familiar with what I as looking at and not taking the time to look more closely I asked for help. The instructions say that you program for dn then a few other steps. After the hardness value is entered they say to set the next value to 14 for municipal water and 7 for any other source of water. I am not sure if unlocking the computer allowed me to see this number as I dont recall. I read about unlocking the computer from the WS1 manual I downloaded from the clack site



    Please remember that they said to program it for 60k an 30 lbs of salt and P7?. I am trying to set this so it will work best and dont know if those are laughable values as you previously stated about the instructions. Im just a diyr trying to program something I know very little about so if I come across a little confusing its because I am :D

    I see a lot of people here are passionate about thier profession and thats good for people like me. BTW thanks to all of you for your input..
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2010
  13. nhmaster3015

    nhmaster3015 Master Plumber

    Messages:
    836
    Location:
    The granite state
    Another round and round thread but then......... You have the manual from Clacks site for the WS-1 so go ahead and program for your compensated hardness. Can the programming be tweaked to save a little salt? Probably, but salt is cheap and resin is expensive.
  14. Bob999

    Bob999 In the Trades

    Messages:
    448
    Location:
    Pennsylvania

    I don't believe that is true.
  15. Bob999

    Bob999 In the Trades

    Messages:
    448
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    I recommend you use P-13. This will increase your backwash time to better deal with the iron.
  16. farmboy101

    farmboy101 New Member

    Messages:
    46
    Location:
    Vancouver Island
    Thanks Bob999.

    So from the chart in the manual this is P-13

    P13* Down Flow

    1st Backwash *8

    Brine/Slow Rinse *45

    2nd Backwash *5

    Fast Rinse *4
  17. farmboy101

    farmboy101 New Member

    Messages:
    46
    Location:
    Vancouver Island
    I would like to make the resin last as long as possible and still provide soft iron free water. I have wasted so much $ on salt with the Kinetico not working properly that I am used to dumping bags of it in. I get it at Wally World up here for $5.38 a 20 KG bag. I was also thinking of getting a skid of it as I was told its cheaper that way ;)
  18. Bob999

    Bob999 In the Trades

    Messages:
    448
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    A correct but irrelevant point. The two measures are simply different scales for measuring the same thing and are easily converted using the relationship 17.1 ppm = 1 gpg.



    I have to wonder how you come up with such statements. The fact is that manufactures provide specifications in terms of the VOLUME of the resin because that is the most important parameter.
  19. nhmaster3015

    nhmaster3015 Master Plumber

    Messages:
    836
    Location:
    The granite state
    You will be fine with P@13 and the other settings from your above post.
  20. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    I say Auto, 18K, 6 lbs salt, P 20, Normal + on 0, compensated hardness of 18 gpg ( not ppm or mg/l as Bob says doesn't matter), day 8 calendar override and 2:00 AM.

    You should get rid of the brine pick up tube you have and get a 2310 float controlled safety brine valve with a # 500 air check.
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