Clack System Quote & Questions

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Matt Palmer

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Hi,
I have a very old Kenmore water softener that needs replaced. I'm on a well in Vermont with iron, sulfur smell, and stubborn white deposits forming on all of my fixtures. I recently had a company come in and test my water with the following results, although I'm unsure if they bypassed the current softener (if it's working at all) long enough to for these to be valid:
Hardness: 17
Fe: 1.5
MFe: 0
Mn: .15
pH: 7.2
TDS: 278
H2S: Slight

Based on these results, I was quoted $2,700 for installation of a Clack 1044 conditioner w/KDF, 10" BB conditioner housing, two 20 micron filters and two bags of salt.

Does this price seem right? Is this system appropriate for my needs as tested above? Appropriate if the tests were flawed by testing already softened water?

Thanks for your help; this can be overwhelming!
 

Bannerman

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I expect that the quote is for a softener with a 'Clack' control valve, mounted on a 10" diameter X 44" high media tank. That size tank will likely contain 1.25 cu/ft of resin which provides 40,000 grains of total softening capacity.

Both Clack and Fleck are companies which manufacture high quality control valves that typically function reliably for many years. They are generally sold to distributors or dealers who include them with various components as a generic softener. These softeners are often marketed as the dealer's own brand or without a brand name.

As far as the appropriateness of the system, it is helpful to indicate the number of occupants in the home, the size of the main plumbing pipe feeding the house, and a summary of plumbing fixtures as this info may help to establish the peak flow and capacity required. In addition, some information regarding your well (depth, diameter) and the type and capacity of your pump and pressure tank may also be useful.
 

Matt Palmer

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Thanks, Bannerman. There are four occupants (2 adult, 2 children), supply pipe size is 1" PE, main line is 3/4" copper, two full baths, one half, dishwasher, washer/dryer, well is 300ft deep with good flow and 6" diameter (diam. is guesstimate), pressure tank is listed on quote as WX-203.

Any additional thoughts on type/capacity/pricing. Really appreciate the advice and wisdom.
 

Reach4

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Not a pro. If you are using a Clack controller, I think you pretty much need to trust your local guy. Fleck is more open about where you can buy and what model of controller you are getting.

I am not familiar with the KDF inserts either. Is there design data available to you?

What I think is that the top system I would consider is a backwashing filter using Katalox Light media followed by a single 20x4.5 Pentek Big Blue housing with an appropriate polypropylene media cartridge. That would deal with the sulfur smell as well as the iron and Mn. Then I would have a water softener with a 2 cubic ft for 3 people, or a 1.5 cubic foot for fewer softener. You would backwash on demand or every 21 days, whichever came first.

A lesser cheaper system I would use the is same except that I would eliminate the backwashing filter initially, but leave space for it in the system for future upgrade. With this method, I would figure to backwash every 4 to 7 days max. I would figure to apply an iron cleanout treatment every month or two. I would maybe go with a courser filter cartridge because the filter is now the front-end for stopping sediment.

In any case, I would sanitize my well and plumbing system. My favorite method is http://www.moravecwaterwells.com/index.php/maintainance/disinfection-and-testing This is not an annual thing. Depending on the well, you might be able to go until your next well work, or several years, before doing it again.

Edit: Regarding the WellXTrol WX-203 tank, that is a top quality tank. http://www.amtrol.com/media/documents/wellxtrol/MC7025_04_14_WXTsizingCard.pdf shows sizing information. Check to see if you should go up a size.
 
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Bannerman

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As your water contains some iron and manganese, these increase the size of softener required as well as the frequency of regeneration and the amount of salt consumed. You would also need to periodically clean the iron residue from the resin with 'Iron Out' or a similar treatment.

The sizing calculator located here: http://www.qualitywaterassociates.com/sizing.php calculates you require a 2.5 cu/ft softener based on your test numbers being in ppm but I think that maybe too large as it estimates regeneration occurring every 11 days when programmed for 8 lbs salt per cu/ft of resin. While weekly regeneration is generally preferred with iron, without iron, the regeneration interval could be extended and, you could reduce the softener size and salt to 6 lbs/cu/ft.

While a softener maybe purchased at a competitive price on-line, you would first need to determine what is properly required and also install it yourself or hire someone locally to do so.

As your current proposal includes KDF and a 10" Big Blue filter, I'm not experienced as to how effective either would be with your sulfur issue.

I suggest waiting for Dittohead's and others in the trade for advice as I expect they would have the knowledge and experience required for your specific water conditions. Depending on your location, Dittohead may also be able to recommend a trustworthy dealer in your area.
 
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Matt Palmer

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Thanks again, Bannerman. I'm certainly not qualified to install one of these systems and would really like to be sure it is done correctly. Clear Water is the dealer that provided the quote. Looking forward to additional comments/opinions!
 

_John_

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Cost not being prohibitive, I'd want a katalox light backwashing filter (1.5 or 2 cu. ft.) ahead of a softener, which would run you a lot more than what he is quoting.

I'll admit to not knowing as much about how KDF works as I should (well, I know the reactions, but the media required/effectiveness I'm less good on). We don't use it much. With katalox, you probably wouldn't "need" any other filter housings unless the well produced a good amount of sand.

The price seems pretty normal for what I've seen (and ballpark of what we charge FWIW), but you can find Fleck systems online for a LOT less if you were able to install the equipment yourself.

I like Clack's valves better, but not at any price.
 

Matt Palmer

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Thanks, John. Unfortunately, I don't have the time or expertise to install a system myself. Looks like I'm going to move forward with this quote.

Thanks again to everyone for your help!
 

ditttohead

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KDF dumped inside the tank will have no affect when it is mixed with a softener and can ause problems. If they are doing it inside of a media guard, then it may be "somewhat" effective. I am in 100% agreement with John, Katalox light system should be installed ahead of the softener, not a media guard and a BB filter.
 

pdubs

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Matt,

I also live in VT and have similar water issues and composition. Our water is not as hard only 5 grains, but we do also have slightly elevated radium 228 (6.7 pCi/L). Also we have same number of people and summary of water demand.

I just got the same proposal from Clear water for the clack 1022 with KDF. The quote was also just about the same. Wondering if you went ahead with yours and how it has performed over the past couple years?

Thanks, Pat
 
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