Changing shower tub trim and need help! Powers 410 Hydroguard

Discussion in 'Shower & Bathtub Forum & Blog' started by angel9894, Oct 24, 2011.

  1. angel9894

    angel9894 New Member

    Messages:
    27
    Location:
    NYC
    Update:

    So the tile guys are not taking the walls down to studs and said that they aren't going to be having the wall open. They re-tile apartments in our building often and I guess they can remove the tile in the tub surround without much damage. So with that said, do I just schedule the plumber to come and do it anytime before they tile (As opposed to trying to schedule him come in the middle of the re-tiling) ? If the tile guys wont be doing anything to make it much easier for the plumber to get into the wall to change the older shower valve/body what's the smartest way to go about this?

    HJ btw, to answer your previous question, we DO have shut off for our unit ONLY, so they don't have to do anything with the building.

    And lastly, while looking for the new replacements for the shower/tub since I can't use just new trim, I need to buy the sets that specifically say "Valve IN" or "Valve Included"? And is there anything else I need to be aware of when choosing the new showersheads/valve control/spout set?

    Thanks for any feedback again guys!
  2. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    22,274
    Location:
    New England
    If you don't have access to the wet wall from say another room, then you'll need to make the hole bigger to be able to replace the guts. There are two ways around that, either the tile guys can patch it or you can use a remodel plate to cover the bigger hole.
  3. angel9894

    angel9894 New Member

    Messages:
    27
    Location:
    NYC
    Got it! Thanks so much for your advice :)
  4. jimbo

    jimbo Plumber

    Messages:
    8,997
    Location:
    San Diego
    Out in the beach area where I used to work a lot, there is actually ONE high rise building ( 29 stories ). They snuck that in back around 1970 before the state slapped a 30 foot height limit on all building in the coastal zone. Anyway, I had to double my charges working there because I usually had to park 1/2 mile away and hoof it, ride the servants elevator which was hugely slow, etc. And in the back of your mind, you are always mindful that if you cause a plumbing leak, the damage could be in 6 or 7 figures!!!!!!!! I stopped going there.
    So yes, a bathroom remodel will run you 10k easy. Tile work will be expensive because there is no place to hose out the buckets....they will be lugging buckets of mortar in and out of there all day long. A job which on guy could do will probably use a crew of 3 or 4
  5. angel9894

    angel9894 New Member

    Messages:
    27
    Location:
    NYC
    Update:
    Hey Guys:)
    So I've gotten 4 or 5 bids from Plumbers ranging from $600 per shower to $1250 per shower. The plumber we liked and trusted the most was of course, the most expensive. I also finally got on the phone with someone from Powers who was extremely nice and sympathetic to my cause of having a commercial shower body in my residential apartment and how that stunk for remodeling.

    Anyway, she showed me the only Powers Trim kit they offer which is this one
    P417.jpg 100351.jpg

    I can't say it's much better than what's currently there and she agreed it's not much of an improvement aesthetically.

    My question is this, the actual lever in the second photo, there is no possible creative way to get a part from a plumbing supply that could be used in place of that they may look at least slightly nicer? It's not just a metal piece with thread and a screw?

    I am just clawing for any out of the box idea's that could possibly work to allow me not to break in the wall, change the S.b's, risk any unknowns and spend a small fortune.

    Thanks again for your expertise and feedback! Ya'll are incredibly appreciated!
  6. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    22,274
    Location:
    New England
    There is no industry standard for trim pieces...their only requirement is that they fit their own valve body. So, anything you tried would be a crapshoot, unlikely to work, but you could get lucky. Problem is, you'd probably spend as much trying a bunch of different ones as just tearing the old one out and putting in a new one.
  7. angel9894

    angel9894 New Member

    Messages:
    27
    Location:
    NYC
    One last question:
    If I decide to go the conservative route and just change the showerhead and spout, is there a specific kind of spout I need to buy or I can pretty much buy any one I like?
  8. angel9894

    angel9894 New Member

    Messages:
    27
    Location:
    NYC
    Decision made but now which to install?

    In a quick turn of events my dad has bitten the bullet and given me the green light to redo the shower bodies completely. With that said, the plumber we are hiring quoted me a Delta and an American Standard replacement, but as I posted before, I had it in my mind to go Kohler.

    I just want to put in whatever brand will be the least trouble, most reliable and easy to fix and easy to upgrade when the time comes. Is Kohler ok or is there a reason to go with A.S. or Delta for the shower bodies?

    Need to make a decision by Monday so appreciate your advice :)
  9. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    22,274
    Location:
    New England
    I'd go with the Delta. If you get the R10000 rough-in valve, you have lots of choices for trim and functionality. At a plumbing supply store, the rough-in valve and the trim are separate purchase items...in a big box store, they are often packaged together. You have a choice of pressure balance (PB) with no volume control (single-handle), PB with volume control (two handles or knobs), or thermostatic with volume control depending on which trim you choose (two handles or knobs). All of those meet the antiscald shower requirements and are likely to have alternate trims way into the future. With Kohler, IF you save the manual and part list, you can probably order the parts, but don't expect alternate trim or to find the parts locally...you'll have to order them, whereas, you can likely pick up the Delta parts locally in many places. In either, they would probably be available for free to the original owner from the factory, but sometimes you can't wait!
  10. angel9894

    angel9894 New Member

    Messages:
    27
    Location:
    NYC
    So I just got off the phone with my Plumber who is super nice but SUPER rushed. I am ordering the shower bodies today and want to make sure I get what I want. He said the only "MUSTS" are that I get a dual Shower/Tub body with Integral Stops.


    Which of these am I supposed to get (If I want to go with Kohler) ?


    Kohler K-11748-KS Rite-Temp Valve with Diverter ? Is that the right one.



    I'm ordering from here http://www.********.com/ NY replacement Parts

    If order the Delta R10000 is there a specific version I need to get that has PB and integral stops?
  11. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    22,274
    Location:
    New England
    http://www.deltafaucet.com/search/results.html?q=R10000#axzz1dujnyrlK shows the choices of just the rough-in valve. I'd probably go with the R10000-UNWS, but it would depend on what your piping is, as to what's the best. The letters decode as UN- universal connection - either screw on or solder in; WS - with stops.

    As said earlier in the thread, with this rough-in valve, you have a huge choice of trims and control means (including single handle, or two handles with either just temp and volume, or thermostat and volume). If you go to http://www.deltafaucet.com/bath/tubshower/filter.html#1873294718_ and select the R-10000 rough-in, and then specify what you want, it will show you your options. While Kohler makes some nice stuff, it is a major pain sometimes getting parts down the road. Delta's stuff tends to be backwards compatible...Kohler's seems to be the design of the day with little regard to backwards compatibility.
  12. angel9894

    angel9894 New Member

    Messages:
    27
    Location:
    NYC
    I agree that Delta has many many more choices, but the problem is I don't actually like ANY of the delta choices of trim. Especially the tub spouts. If I get the Delta universal valve, can I put spouts different tub spouts /showerheads on their? I don't mind the levers, they are ok.

    I called our plumbing supply store in NYC and they said they have Kohler parts and its not a problem. But yes True that there isn't a "universal" Kohler valve and I will be much more limited with choices of trim depending on which valve I choose.

    The one I really love is the Grohe GR-PB101 Atrio Pressure Balanced Shower Trim with Multi Function Shower Head, Tub Spout, Shower Arm and Single Lever Handle
    grohe_gr_pb101sc_10.jpg

    I just wish Delta had something that was even close to similar :(
  13. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    22,274
    Location:
    New England
    Neither the tub spout nor the shower head and arm are specific to a valve brand, so you can use any one you wish. Personally, I have Grohe stuff in my home, and like it. It's not all that old, so I can't say how it will age (the tub/shower valve stuff is about 6-years old now, no problems).

    Kohler's parts book looks more like a phone book...so, while any one place may have a 'decent' supply, that doesn't mean they have what you'll need 10-20 years down the road. Often, the only place to get it is from the factory, and then they don't always have it, either.
  14. angel9894

    angel9894 New Member

    Messages:
    27
    Location:
    NYC
    The local supply store told me to go Moen or Grohe. After looking some more, I think I'm going to go with the Hansgrohe iBox Universal Plus Rough-in Valve with Service Stop that has a bunch of trim options. Anyone have any objections or is this a good solution that gives me a range of price options for trim that should be upgrade able in the future?
  15. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    22,274
    Location:
    New England
    Hansgrohe and Grohe are two different companies...
  16. angel9894

    angel9894 New Member

    Messages:
    27
    Location:
    NYC
    Doh!!!!! Well..... they had both apparently (Grohe and Hansgrohe) I went with the new Hansgrohe valve since it has the look I want, BOTH pressure balance and volume control in a single lever, and a good array of trims. I know Grohe is supposed to be the higher end of the two, but the reviews I read from people using the Hansgrohe shower faucets have been positive. My plumber may hate me now, oh well!
  17. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    22,274
    Location:
    New England
    They all are required anti-scald technology (pressure balance is one way to achieve this), so that isn't an issue here. All of the single handle valves I'm aware of give you full volume with no volume control, only temperature control (if the handle has two motions, rotate and twist, like some older ones, that may be possible). It starts cold, and goes warmer as you turn the valve futher, but there's no volume control - it's either on or off. That feature is available, but it requires two levers, knobs, or a combination.
  18. angel9894

    angel9894 New Member

    Messages:
    27
    Location:
    NYC
    You're right. My apologies.
    This is the one I got (with the Ibox universal plus rough)

    S Thermostatic Trim w/Volume Control and Diverter

    Thermostatic temperature control
    Volume control and diverter for 2 outlets
    Anti-scald 100-degree safety stop
    Flow 8 GPM @ 44 PSI
    Set your preferred water temperature
    7/8" shallow extension set #13596xx0 (sold separately)
    Requires iBoxâ„¢ Universal Plus rough #01850181
    Requires an iBox Universal Plus rough for installation. Available in drop down menu
    Hansgrohe-04231.jpg
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