Changing Careers

[Dubldare]

I should corrcet myself here,

any PLUMBING company that pays 100%

health benefits for their employees and
their family too ---scott free..


and you work for such a plumbing company???

Yes, I work for such a plumbing company.

 

[Master Plumber Mark]

enjoy it while you can

congradualtions to you!!


you are in the very
top %1 in the whole nation

(if you arent just playing me, that is)

you better keep that job and do whatever
you can to help keep your employer profitable
because thats a pretty large expence to have to pay
especially for "non-related" employees that are not
the "bosses son or son-in law" or partners
in the business. You dont fall into that category , do you??

A son-in law with special perks can seriously weigh down any
company.

Once I had an employee that demanded me to pay for him and his
whole family , wife and two kids.....estimate of about $650 per month and that was back in 2000. Of course he didnt want to work any overtime, this was an expected entitlement just to show up....ect.. So he went on down the road.


In the news , very soon, even General Motors is
not going to be paying %100 for
medical benefits anymore.

The only place in this whole mid-west
region that does anything close
to what you claim to have is Lillys


so enjoy it while you still got it,
and try keep your father -in -law happy. (LOL)
(whoever he is)

 

[Sponsor]

 

[brianj]

Sounds like a conversation I had with my wife just yesterday. A million years ago I put myself through school working as a carpenter. Now I am a "Senior Technical Consultant" which is a fancy way of saying that I am an overpaid software engineer. Every time I pick up a hammer to work on my house, every time I get good wiff of some wood, I want to quit my job and go back to the trades. And I would, in a hearbeat, if I could make the same money, which I can't. Wife is in nursing school with two years to go. I told her that once she hits a certain income, I am quitting my job and going back to my first love ... the trades!

I'm only 25 and have been in IT for 7+ years now. So I figured I'm in a decent position to make a change now. I skipped the college scene, and I'm glad I did since I don't have that degree holding me in this place, or the bills that would go with it.

I know what you mean about money though. I'm a Systems Administrator (Windows/Citrix) now, and for my age, it's very respectible. But I know I don't want to be here forever, and I don't see myself moving up in this job anytime soon. So I know it'd be a pay cut for a while. But there's no reason you can't do some consulting on the side, or some other odds & ends to make up part of the difference.

I'm still on the fence...right now just trying to figure out how/when I want to take the leap. We'll see...I figure time is on my side.

 

[Master Plumber Mark]

reality adjustment

The best way to get over your dream of
going into the trades.....

just offer yourself as free labor
for a weekend or two at any sewer cleaning
company...that will sober you up pretty quick.

if it still does not deter you,
then it must be your fate...

 

[Billsnogo]

I figure I would post on this old topic rather than start a new one on the same subject. I am also trying to change my occupation as what I do now I would not call a career.

I work for a bank making $12.40/hr (took 8 years to make that) and I get matching 401K up to 4%, they pay for some of my medical (I pay about $150 a month for my basic health insurance for just me), dental (not that great, but better than nothing!), and 3 weeks paid vacation (get 3 after 5 years), had a pension, but they stopped that after 2 years of me working there, and that is it for benifets.

I have been trying to get into my local union appreticeship through dunwoody (apprentice starts at $15/hr and benefits) the last two years but placed in the 90's out of about 300 both years and they take 40-60 people each year. I do pretty good on the test but suck at the interviews (always will when 10 people sit and judge me, I get VERY nervouse).

I am a home DIY kind of person and really liked the plumbing I have done so far. I have done an electric hot water heater, three toilets replacements, sink repairs (including for a cookie store, benefits there, free cookies!), replacing sinks, installing (not replacing) water softner, installed drinking faucet (hate softened waters taste!) and repaired garden hose valve, replaced some valves and replaced some piping, and probaly something else I have forgoten. Nothing real hard, but had no help from anyone other than my wife.

After doing above mentioned projects, I really liked it.....well, most of it, there are always those moments where you grit your teeth. I never knew what I really wanted to do for a career, until then. I love it and know I have ALOT to learn, and am so wanting to know all the solutions when you hit those situations that you don't plan for. It is alot more challenging and alot more variety than what I do now, and is alot better than stairing at a computer screen 40/hrs a week. I think plumbing could be the career that I will love but never really knew about intill I tried it.

So I am starting a class in a month that will do my in class training for an apprenticeship, but don't know what to do about the on the job training needed to get my journeymans licence. I guess I will get more answers to that when class starts. I am going to try again at dunwoody next spring for the union apprenticeship, but if I do not make it again for the 3rd year in a row, I will just keep attending this other class.

From the previous post, I don't think the problem with benefits and pay will be an issue as mine are not bad, but not great either. I want to get into a trade that will most likely keep me busy year round, and this might just be what I need. Did any of you start off in a similar situation? Wish me luck!

 

[Master Plumber Mark]

getting started

It sounds like working for a bank for 8 years

or only 12.50 per hour isnt much of a future....

I dont know where you live, but sometimes its best

to just go find some small places and simply try to get on

as an apprentice....to get the experience....


you might hav eto give up your med benefits ,, ect... who knows..


---------------------------------------------------------------------

Right now ---yesterday, I called the local high-school--Technical school

--trade schol in our area and asked if they had anyone interested in

doing the service work and learning service plumbing....

basically being a helper and runner for things in the truck...getting basic experience

I am waiting for the reply from the teachers in the next few days...



I wont place an ad in the local paper anymore-- just to see what kind of

lieing--theiveing-- drunken- cock-roaches scamper in my door looking for

their next plumbing company to steal from.... I refuse to do it again.


I would rater train some young green kid myself from almost scratch and pay

him 10-13 bucks an hour then have to deal with a bunch of doped out losers that

have been fired from their last 5 jobs...demanding --expecting $20+ per

hour and a truck to drive home too.......( they dont have transportation of their own--LOL)



aint life grand ---- you got your problems and I got mine...

 

[mn_nobody]

you make it sound like 'on the job training' is easy. try busting your hump in the rain snow sleet and brown stuff for 5 years, before you even get close to MN journeymen's hours regs. Now, try and pass the test. this business is not for the meek or mild, as my first boss used to say.

 

[Billsnogo]

you make it sound like 'on the job training' is easy. this business is not for the meek or mild,

I don't remember saying it would be easy, and I don't remember saying I was meek or mild. I am glad at all the support for others interested in joining the pluming field

I am sorry that alot of you have seen others that start and either quit because the lack of wanting to do hard work, or those that seem to muttle through and then just do the bare minimum of work needed.

I was just looking for advice other than "this business is not for the meek and mild". Oh well.

 

[Master Plumber Mark]

knock on doors

Like I mentioined ....just call around and

see if anyone is interested in a cheap cheap

part time apprentice....

If you really have the desire ask them

to let you work the weekends as a helper

for straight time only ---that might some takers....

to see if you like it the job before you quit your real job....

I dont know where you live and the general population numbers

and how many plumbers are in your area --that could be a factor too...



remember --the shovel is your freind...

 

[Billsnogo]

Thanks for the advice. I would be glad to offer cheap labor for weekends. Our population is pretty large, and I see lots of different plumbing vans running around, so hopefully one will take me up on cheap labor. Sure would not be the first time I did very hard labor for cheap, but usually my pay is in food and drink (root beer! ). Money might be a better choice

 

[Dunbar Plumbing]

I've been turning down so much work lately that I could employ someone on their own. On some of the calls I get.......as soon as I hear what they have I tell them up front, "Just to let you know before anything, I am not price competitive and have a 4 week window before I can even schedule any work." I did that to a water heater install today as well; she said she was going down the list in the phone book. Keep calling because I'm not budging. I could of been a circus clown passing off as a plumber and it wouldn't of mattered to her; her driving point was cheap cheap and nothing else.

Later on this evening I ended a conversation for a guy before he had a chance to when he asked me if I would give him a free estimate 23 miles away???????? Told him thank you for the inquiry and GOOD LUCK with your project. He seemed a little shocked in his last few words he tried to get in. I just don't have time for nonsense and he was trying to determine what "fair" is in his mind, not what is fair for what I charge to drive that far to do work.

The job was running a gas line to a fireplace and hook up gas logs. He was trying to get me to agree that some other guy last year said he'd put the gas shutoff outside the home. I told him that if I do the work there will be a gas shutoff inside the home in close proximity of the fireplace. Some drywall/floor work might be needed afterwards. He was basically telling me that "I want you to do it wrong and I need confirmation that you will do this before we proceed with further discussion." < In other words. Pffffffffffft! I won't have anyone telling me that I can only do things that suits them, and against code, the very reason I ended his call quickly.

I'm sure if I had a new hire that needed his/her 40 hours in I'd probably be getting brow beat by jobs like this because I had to take them. Bringing a newbie in to run gas line would be extremely difficult to teach I'm sure.

I got my start back in the mid 80's with a guy that spent his mornings puking out the window of his van. $5/hour cash and my job duties was the grunt and the cut/sandpaper man. I got really tired of dragging that stuff off and on from the van. Really old. Now I do it since I run my own show and it doesn't seem as quite as painful today as it was back in the day. I guess it's because those tools are what generates the money for me in the total scheme of things.

We all pay our dues. Campbell county in my area is nothing but rock in the underground. I couldn't tell you how many times I had to dig ground roughs with nothing but a shovel and pick axe.

Even better? Having to dig under the footer with sometimes almost 2 feet of overpour to put a 6" sleeve in to get the main line out. All because the concrete guys didn't have (or wanna spend $30 at the time) the gumption to put it in crossways in the footer. Unbelievable and I couldn't wait to get home and look at the paint peel on the walls.

Anything was better than that kind of work. My boss wouldn't buy a jackhammer; had to sledge footers against the wall when we had to get the piping against the walls. I paid my dues.

 

[Dubldare]

Billsnogo, I admire not only your persistence, but also your choice of career path. Not many want to be plumbers anymore, lets take all we can.

But, as had been eluded to above, you'll be low man on the totem pole for quite a few years. Most of an apprenticeship is learning humility, and out of that hopefully something that cannot be taught will develop: common sense. That's the ultimate goal.

The type of plumbing work you've performed is service work. There is much more to plumbing than that. The 'infrastructure' that you've connected to was done by another breed of plumber: the 'shackers' in the residential realm, or the 'commercial' guys in anything else. To ever become competent as a plumber you will need to be well rounded, and that includes spending quite a number of years doing that work.

You see, just because you have a mechanical aptitude and possibly the feeling that you can fix quite a bit of stuff that ails people, you will have to bite the bullet, keep your mouth shut (at least at first) and dig a big trench for a little pipe to go in and then cover it up and tamp it after inspection. Along with that will go alot of trips up the ladder to get fittings out of the trailer and back. You'll get dirty, you'll get yelled at, you'll feel worthless somedays but find that you don't have much time to think about any of it until Sunday. You'll dig on the hottest most humid days, you'll use a pick-axe to break the frost in the late fall before you can dig. Mud, all kinds. Clean hands?... You'll have several years before you have that luxury. @$$holes, you'll work under alot of them. Mind reader, you'll learn to become one. Just remember that someday it will be worth it.

Don't get any of us wrong, we're not trying to talk you out of this. You just need to be reticent that a sore back or a shovel allergy means you probably won't have much luck.

As far as a service apprentice, overheads are so high today that it's very rare to find any OJT (on-job-training) as one. I consider OJT as the State of Minnesota does: under the direct and personal supervision of a duly licenced master or journeyman plumber. As an apprentice, you can do virtually nothing without a journeyman onsite and over your shoulder. In Mpls and St.Paul, the only work an apprentice can do by himself is drain cleaning, and there are specific provisions to that. A drain cleaner may only gain access to the drainage system through a fixture's opening or though a cleanout plug. Traps and fixtures cannot be removed by drain cleaners. You may have noticed this if you ever see a Roto-Rooter truck down there, most say 'Sewer and Drain Service' while there are a small handful that say 'Plumbers'. If you do choose that line, you'll probably find yourself as a drain cleaner.

I'm particularly hard on the 'service' method of apprenticeship because sooner or later you'll find yourself in your own truck, unsupervised, doing more and more. Faucet replacements, WH changeouts, fixing leaks. While you will see each of these as a sort of 'promotion', you are actually being taken advantage of, as is the health of the customer and community of you doing so. The only one getting fat is the office, charging journeyman rates while paying out for a 2-3 year apprentice. Even if they compensate you as a journeyman, you are being stunted between the ears. For you will find yourself doing things that require much more knowledge than what you have, and even if you can figure them out and do them correctly, your ego will outgrow your knowledge. You may be one heck of a service apprentice, but you'll have a very hard, uphill battle taking the exam.

You see, the exam will require designing of systems, sizing piping to minimums, material usage and transitions and a bevy of information that is pertinent to being a plumber, but easily disregarded by your mind because of the 'in the field' mentality. You can do it as a service apprentice, but it will be an uphill battle mostly within your mind.


I'm tough on going the 'service' way, because, for the most part, that's where I'm from. I'm a second generation master. Grew up around alot of service stuff. I had my own service truck when I was 18, a week after graduating. I could've had my Dad sign off my hours to take the journeyman's at 20, but I didn't think I wanted to be a plumber anyway, it was just pocket change while I made up my mind.
I worked for the company where my Dad carried the master license (he wasn't the boss). I worked there for 6 months and got laid-off (January 92). Made all of $3.75/hr (training wage while on my own, lol) even though minimum was $4.25. Took a couple months off, moved, worked in a factory for 3 months, delivered flowers (!!!!) for 3 months and then checked out job service. Took a couple tests and got hired by a plumbing company (Oct 92). Did mostly commercial for 1 1/2 years, alot of ADA stuff. Moved, worked for another company doing service, shacking and heating for 5 1/2 years. Around 1997, I finally got serious and actually registered as an apprentice. Moved to Mpls in 1999, doing service, res and commercial and a bit of heating service. Took my journeyman in '01 (passed first time!!), took my Mpls test (passed third time, fricken 7 hour test).

My father passed away Nov of '03, he was always of the thought that I should get my masters. Took the master test spring of '04 and passed it. Moved back up north shortly thereafter, bought my union card and went to work up here.

For all intensive purposes, I was a pre-apprentice for 6 years, an apprentice for 4. Ten years, damn.

But, I learned alot. I'm still learning at 33.

I work for the service division of a company, being lead service tech. I usually get the accounts that we have to put the polish on, the technical stuff and the callbacks when we have to save face. I'm the goto if any tech is in over his head (my phone rings alot, mostly from journeyman and master techs, lol). For the last few months I've been forman doing alot of commercial ground-roughs, high profile, no screw-up type jobs (gotta keep the general happy). Our company has, I guess, made me an incubator to teach alot of guys how to interpret plans and get the pipes coming up in the right spots. Talk about stress (I have a couple 4th year service apprentices who are allergic to shovels!). I also design drawings for plan reviews in MN (really tapping into the drafting I took in 8th grade).

All in all, it's pretty overwhelming at times (frickin salesmen) but everyday is still something different.

We could probably take on 6 journeymen right now and still be behind.

I'm sick of 70 hour weeks in the sun.

When it gets old, I'll find something else.


BTW, is that Century College for your apprenticeship program? I took a MN Code Course there during my apprenticeship. Learned an awful lot.
Don't be afraid to check with 34 in St. Paul, or even cold call some plumbing outfits. If your willing to start at the bottom, plus are already in school....well, that means you're a go getter.

 

[Billsnogo]

dubldare, thank you! Very informative post, just what I was looking for. Yep, century college in White Bear Lake. I would love to learn all the different aspects of plumbing, that is why I am so interested, I have just very barely scratched the surface.

Yes I like the work I have done so far, but I want to learn how to do the work outside of the house on the supply and drainage lines, I want to learn how to maintain and service boilers in large commercial buildings. Heck, I would love to learn it and expericance it all (even the less then wonderfull aspects of being a plumber). I am always up to learning something new and hope to have worked in as many parts of the field as possible in the first ten years of being a journeyman not only to have the knowledge, but the experiance.

I am very aware that crap rolls down hill , and when you are an apprentice, you start at the very bottom of the hill and get the brunt of that crap. I have been warned many times about that. I am more than willing to realise my place when starting. I don't expect to be pampered or coddled, I expect to be used and abused through my apprenticeship. Just need to pay my dues, and am sure there are days that will almost make me break, but am still willing to put my all into it.

I am sure I sound all bright eyed and wet behind the ears, and maybe I am, but I guess I will have to find out the hard way if I really am or not.

I sure do appreciat the advice, and any others may have.

 

[mn_nobody]

not trying to discourage ya, what i'm tryin to say is be ready for a serious culture shock. lol, the shovel is your friend. My first boss told me i'd better name the shovels on the van, because we were about to become great friends

 

[mn_nobody]

dubldare---
need help? send me a pm, i've recently been laid off. I'm in Northfield.