Cast iron toilet flange

[CubGirl]

My plumber is being paid to fix subfloor and the toilet flange. He said he can do simple carpentry so would do both the floor and the flange. Now he says he's done. I told him there's not supposed to be a gap between the flange and subfloor. He said he can get a flange repair kit and it will cover the gap. Then it will be ok.

I have doubts. What are your opinions?

Thanks
Cub

 

[Cacher_Chick]

I don't see that anything has been done to repair the flange at all. The best repair would be to remove the old flange entirely, and rework the bend and/or the riser so that a new flange can be installed on top of the finished floor. A proper flange IS supposed to be screwed down through the finished flooring.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Reach4]

1. Is that about 7 inches across?
2. How big is the hole ID?
3. Does the metal deflect up or down easily?
4. how far above or below the subfloor top is the top of the metal?
5. How thick will the flooring atop the subfloor be?

 

[Standardairconditioner]

My plumber is being paid to fix subfloor and the toilet flange.

Where's the new flange? Are you paying for an invisible one?

I told him there's not supposed to be a gap between the flange and subfloor.

That's right.

I have doubts. What are your opinions?

Get a new licensed plumber.

 

[CubGirl]

 

[CubGirl]

I meant he's done with the subfloor repair -- not the flange part! He has not repaired the flange yet. He says the gap will no longer be a concern when he puts on the flange repair kit.

 

[CubGirl]

1. Is that about 7 inches across?
2. How big is the hole ID?
3. Does the metal deflect up or down easily?
4. how far above or below the subfloor top is the top of the metal?
5. How thick will the flooring atop the subfloor be?

1. about yes
2. which hole ID, the subfloor hole or flange hole?
3. it's cast iron so no
4. it's even with the floor
5. it will be thin vinyl

 

[Reach4]

2. which hole ID, the subfloor hole or flange hole?

Flange hole-- about 3 or 4 inches... However the main reason I asked is in case the existing flange was considerably deeper. Yours is almost flush, so a Push-tite flange won't be needed.

I am not a plumber or other pro. For the toilet purpose, I think the repair flange would be good at the job.

Gap around the outside.... hmmm. What is under there? I would like to see that filled with something that would keep bugs from traveling and would block air flow if that area was a crawl space. I am uncomfortable with that, and the pros on the thread are really not liking it.

A repair ring will secure the closet bolts. The repair ring itself is screwed to wood outside the main circle, although that big hole in your wood does look excessive. That could be a problem. There is another type of split repair ring that I don't think would be good for this at all. This thread shows a picture:
https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/where-to-buy-red-ring-flange-repair.5267/

From the standpoint of sealing the toilet to the flange, wax will do a good job.

 

[CubGirl]

Flange hole-- about 3 or 4 inches... However the main reason I asked is in case the existing flange was considerably deeper. Yours is almost flush, so a Push-tite flange won't be needed.

I am not a plumber or other pro. For the toilet purpose, I think the repair flange would be good at the job.

Gap around the outside.... hmmm. What is under there? I would like to see that filled with something that would keep bugs from traveling and would block air flow if that area was a crawl space. I am uncomfortable with that, and the pros on the thread are really not liking it.

A repair ring will secure the closet bolts. The repair ring itself is screwed to wood outside the main circle, although that big hole in your wood does look excessive. That could be a problem. There is another type of split repair ring that I don't think would be good for this at all. This thread shows a picture:
https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/where-to-buy-red-ring-flange-repair.5267/

From the standpoint of sealing the toilet to the flange, wax will do a good job.

the crawl space is under the gap.

 

[CubGirl]

oh and he is licensed. journeyman plumber working for himself.

 

[Smooky]

What is the black stuff? Is it tar paper? Is there another layer of wood under the tar paper? Is the black stuff just a dark hole?

 

[CubGirl]

What is the black stuff? Is it tar paper? Is there another layer of wood under the tar paper? Is the black stuff just a dark hole?

the black stuff is the crawl space. so it's the blackness of the hole...

 

[hj]

quote; What is the black stuff?

I cannot believe you asked that question. Obviously it is the opening into the lower area, whatever that is.
And HOW is he going to secure any kind of 'repair flange' to that one when it is already broken where the bolts would fit? He has to remove THAT flange, remove that "floor patch/screw up?, install a new board with the proper sized hole in it, then install and secure a new flange. IF he is "really" a plumber that is a simple job. From what I can see, he is NEITHER a carpenter OR a plumber. A carpenter would have at least been able to cut a ROUND opening. If he is a "journeyman" working on his own, it is probably because NO ONE WILL HIRE HIM. I know I would not if that is the way he does his jobs.

 

[CubGirl]

quote; What is the black stuff?

I cannot believe you asked that question. Obviously it is the opening into the lower area, whatever that is.
And HOW is he going to secure any kind of 'repair flange' to that one when it is already broken where the bolts would fit? He has to remove THAT flange, remove that "floor patch/screw up?, install a new board with the proper sized hole in it, then install and secure a new flange. IF he is "really" a plumber that is a simple job. From what I can see, he is NEITHER a carpenter OR a plumber. A carpenter would have at least been able to cut a ROUND opening. If he is a "journeyman" working on his own, it is probably because NO ONE WILL HIRE HIM. I know I would not if that is the way he does his jobs.

he's a journeyman plumber. i looked up his license on the state agency's site. checked again today and i see it expired december 31, 2015.

he told me he knew how to do basic carpentry. when i saw this job, i objected to the gap between the subfloor and flange. he said the repair kit will cover the gap. i started reading and learned a flange must be attached to the subfloor -- otherwise the toilet will leak there. i also learned this is a cast iron flange on a cast iron pipe. the flange needs to be removed without damaging the pipe. then it can be replaced.

i expected a replaced subfloor and a repaired flange, or a pipe ready for a new flange, not this hack job.

 

[Smooky]

The reason I asked, is most homes around here have a sub floor made of 1X6 or new homes use plywood on the bottom, that is covered with a layer of tar paper and then if vinyl flooring is going to be installed a layer of particle board or another layer of plywood is put on top of the tar paper and the vinyl put on top. No one puts a single layer of press wood down and then puts vinyl on top much less puts it in a bath room where it is subject to get wet.
I didn’t think any licensed plumber would make such a mess. If he is a professional why didn’t he remove the old flange and cut the hole the size of the pipe?

 

[Cacher_Chick]

Smooky is right, one cannot put in any type of sheet flooring over that subfloor. You might have a licensed plumber, but that does not mean he will do everything the way it should be done. Now that you are a little better educated, you should have a better idea of what questions to ask and what to look for go get the job done right.

 

[CubGirl]

this is a rental home. the old subfloor was wood planks. this part was replaced with 3/4" OSB. i'm going to get someone to redo it.

many times what i'm finding in the trades, at least in huntsville alabama, i have to figure out how to do a job myself. i learn by going to forums like this and chatting with pro's. then i have to monitor the tradesman to make sure it's done right. if i do not, i get stuff like this. i've had this happen in hvac, electrical & plumbing. i don't know if they do this because i'm a female or what. but it's getting pretty tiring.

thanks for all your help.
cub

 

[hj]

Guys, or gals, who do work of this quality, do NOT do it because you are female. They do it because that is the ONLY way they know how to do it. One person has had ongoing problems with professionals in Florida.

 

[CubGirl]

i had a totally botched electrical job. i was told my concerns (derating cables, meeting demand load, etc.), all required by the NEC, were waived in huntsville. i fired that contractor and had a long conversation with the local electrical AHJ about it. when i asked why they don't enforce code, he said they do but they rely on the honesty of the contractor. if the contractor lies, the AHJ doesn't know about the violation. i asked why doesn't he didn't just ASK to see the required load calculations. he said his boss would be calling him in to his office if he made folks show him that.

basically, what i walked away from that conversation was this: they can't enforce the code because it would drive the cost of doing business up. then the contractor's in the city would inundate the mayor's office with complaints. the mayor would then call his boss and he'd be worried about his job (he's been an AHJ 11 years). i think the system is a sham and told him so.

he said they were going to upgrade to the 2014 code. why bother, i asked? you all are not even enforcing the 2002 code.

i used to think inspectors were put in place to protect consumers from shoddy or dangerous work. not anymore -- it's just a buddy system and i'm not in it. i'm not even going to pull permits anymore, unless i absolutely must. it's a simply a farce.

 

[hj]

Mzny inspectors are former contractors who could NOT survive in the market place, so they go to work for the city, but they still do not have the skills to determine what is correct. But if they are not even visiting the jobsite to do an inspection, then the whole system breaks down, and the implication is that the inspectors are getting paid to okay the jobs.