Cast Iron drain + short brass stub = headache -- illustrated!

Discussion in 'Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice, Tips & ' started by ninotchka, Feb 24, 2007.

  1. ninotchka

    ninotchka New Member

    Messages:
    10
    Location:
    Baltimore, MD
    Hi everyone! I'd be very glad for some opinions of a plan I'm considering.

    In my bathroom, I have a cast iron soil pipe and hub (2" i think) with a 1 1/4" chrome/brass pipe attached. I think it's leaded.

    Anyway, some demolition-happy moron* cut the brass pipe off so the stub out is only 1". Naturally, that's not long enough to attach a new trap to. It pretty much looks like this:
    [​IMG]

    What would you do? Theoretically, I could try and remove the lead from the joint and lead in a new pipe, but if there's any way to avoid that it'd be great. I'm not crazy about the idea of using a Fernco, since the fitting would protrude from the wall by about two inches and look really cheesy.

    One idea I had was to slip a chrome pipe w/hub over the existing stub, firmly packed with marine epoxy (or a product like this )and possibly wrapped with that fiberglass leak-stop tape (see below)
    [​IMG]

    Is this a real bad idea? If so, does anyone have any ideas that don't involve trying to get that pipe stub out?

    Thanks very much for any thoughts.

    *me.
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2007
  2. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    21,948
    Location:
    New England
    Drill out and remove the existing fitting and lead. Clean up the insides, then use a Fernco donut to install the pipe. The donut takes the place of the oakum and lead, so it doesn't stick out or show any more than the lead does now.
  3. TedL

    TedL New Member

    Messages:
    604
    Location:
    NY Capital District
    Clean out the hub, put a Fernco donut in (I believe this is the part #22U-139 2X1 1/2 SW/CI HUB X PLASTIC) and come out with 1.5 inch 40 pvc that you can put a Marvel fitting on, your choice of 1.25 or 1.5.to receive the drain line.
  4. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,537
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    fitting

    It should be a tailpiece soldered into a threaded solder bushing. You can use a thin screwdriver and hammer to separate the chrome from the brass, (and pull it out). Then cut two slots in the brass about a 1/4" apart. Remove the small piece and then the brass will be able to be "folded" inward to loosen it and spin it out.
  5. ninotchka

    ninotchka New Member

    Messages:
    10
    Location:
    Baltimore, MD
    I take it, then, that no one has any ideas that don't involve removing the currently leaded-in pipe? Because I'll tell ya, that thing looks like it ain't gonna go without a fight. Whoever put that in did not skimp on the lead.

    HJ, thanks for saying the magic words "solder bushing" -- I cleaned up the connection with some steel wool and now I can clearly see that you're right, the chrome pipe is soldered into another fitting. So the thing to do is to cut a chunk out of the brass fitting with what, a hacksaw blade? There's some junk between the brass and CI, but I'm hoping it's just light corrosion.

    Ted, does a "Marvel fitting" go by another name? I'm not sure what to look for there.

    Jim, yes, a donut would look much better than the band coupling I was using a temporary repair.

    I guess I'll see what happens when I get the bushing out, and if the interior of the CI fitting is threaded or not. Or should I use the donut regardless?

    Thanks very much for the time & info, everyone!
  6. wipe the joint

    if it is a brass nipple coming out of the 2 inch cast

    all you have to do is get a propane torch and heat the

    brass nipple enough to get the lead residue off of it...

    wipe it clean with a rag.....

    then all you got to do is get a 2 inch FERNCO fitting

    or a 2 inch NO HUB clamp and attach on to that brass

    nipple

    .......and you are good to go cause that brass insert is

    good for another 100 years..
  7. ninotchka

    ninotchka New Member

    Messages:
    10
    Location:
    Baltimore, MD
    Nope, it's a chrome/brass tailpiece soldered into a brass bushing. I hope I'm going to be able to cut it out gracefully.
  8. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,537
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    bushing

    First get the chrome piece out by cutting it out, or heating the solder until the joint comes loose.
  9. TedL

    TedL New Member

    Messages:
    604
    Location:
    NY Capital District
    Sorry!
    A Marvel fitting adapts plastic pipe (sch 40, like is in the walls) to receive tubular pipe, like is under sinks. It solvent welds onto the outside of plastic pipe and has a threaded compression at the other end.

    The pic at the top of the first page here shows one at the wall end of the item.

    http://www.jb-products.com/pdfs/plastic_02-9.pdf
  10. ninotchka

    ninotchka New Member

    Messages:
    10
    Location:
    Baltimore, MD
    Well, I'm making progress! I think.

    For those following my exciting saga...

    This is where I am right now:
    [​IMG]

    I nicked one of the CI thread, but only a teeny bit.

    Sadly, though, the whole thing is not collapsing and spinning out the way I hoped it would. In fact, it's not moving at ALL! Anyone got any tricks?

    Also, my local independent-plumbing-shop-guy recommended (and sold me) a brass Desanco instead of the donut. Ted, I think it's a brass version of your Marvel fitting..? I liked the looks because it doesn't look like it would require the brute strength of the donut to get right. On the other hand, the non-threaded part that goes to the tubing is a slip fitting and I am a little queasy about having that behind a wall. But it's not like there will be a lot of pressure on it... What's everyone's opinion on the Desanco?

    Thanks a ton for all the help!
  11. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    21,948
    Location:
    New England
    Can't tell for sure...is there enough room to just unscrew that elbow? If you can't get that out (I'm sure there is a way, one of the pros will tell from the picture), I'd just consider cutting off the elbow, then rebuilding it with pvc.
  12. ninotchka

    ninotchka New Member

    Messages:
    10
    Location:
    Baltimore, MD
    Eeeek. No, there's not enough room. And I spent so much time cutting those slots that damned if I'm going to remove the whole elbow now. :D

    If worst comes to worst I can cut it out chunk by chunk... but I really hope that's not what I have to do.
  13. Gary Swart

    Gary Swart In the Trades

    Messages:
    7,341
    Location:
    Yakima WA
    I think you may need to cut a couple more hunk out like the one you have already done. Then the pieces will come out without too much effort other than maybe tapping with cold chisel or screwdriver to get them started. Once that piece is out, you can get a PVC threaded male adapter to screw in to the elbow and you're on your way.
  14. ninotchka

    ninotchka New Member

    Messages:
    10
    Location:
    Baltimore, MD
    Me and the hacksaw will get back to work tomorrow I guess!

    Is there a reason to use the PVC adapter and not the brass? I would like to use a chrome/brass pipe coming out, because it's for a wall-hung sink and will be exposed.
  15. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    21,948
    Location:
    New England
    Me, I'd hacksaw that elbow right off of there and attach whatever I wanted. But, continuing what you are doing should be okay, too.

    I had to remove a cast iron fitting over Christmas. It took forever since I didn't have much room to work. Looking back at it, it would have been much easier and quicker to tear up the ceiling, have reasonably easy access, replace the fitting, then fix the ceiling. I'm pretty sure it would have been much quicker.
  16. Cass

    Cass Plumber

    Messages:
    5,980
    Location:
    Ohio
    HEAT HEAT HEAT Get a map gas torch and heat it.
  17. ninotchka

    ninotchka New Member

    Messages:
    10
    Location:
    Baltimore, MD
    Good thought. I got the chrome pipe out with the mapp torch, but haven't hit it with it since cutting the wedge out -- I'll try that tomorrow.

    When in doubt, reach for the blowtorch!
  18. TedL

    TedL New Member

    Messages:
    604
    Location:
    NY Capital District
    It looks to me like you have completely removed about a 30 degree arc of the brass fitting. I would use a hammer and chisel/screwdriver to bend the ends of the remaining fitting inward (radiallly, toward the center of the circle). It should separate with a couple of hits.

    (Has your description of this connection changed, from leaded to threaded?)
  19. ninotchka

    ninotchka New Member

    Messages:
    10
    Location:
    Baltimore, MD
    Yes, HJ was right -- it wasn't leaded directly in -- it was a solder bushing screwed into the hub with the pipe soldered in (although I'm not clear how since I thought you couldn't sweat chromed brass. The solder was shiny like lead.)

    Thanks for the more detailed description of how to hit it w/the chisel. I'll try that tomorrow.
  20. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,537
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    bushing

    You should have it out by now because a simple tap with a hammer and chisel should have released it. You can't solder chrome to brass. First you have to file the chrome off, and then make a brass to brass joint.
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