can I use a 3/4 hp dual cap control box on my 1/2 hp Goulds 10GS05 pump

Discussion in 'Pumps and Tanks Well Forum & Blog' started by fcbclan, Mar 7, 2012.

  1. fcbclan

    fcbclan New Member

    Messages:
    12
    Location:
    Forest City, Iowa
    Can I use a 3/4 hp energy saving dual cap control box with seprate start and run caps on my 1/2 hp Goulds 10GS05 pump which now has a control box with only 1 cap a franklin 2801054915. and will it save me money on my electric bill. I guess it starts the pump slower with less amp draw, is that right?

    I also would like to know if a booster pump is a good idea to maintain my well pressure when my geothermal comes on it drops my pressure to about 25psi, and It would be nice to maintain it at 40 until I change my 1/2 hp pump to a 3/4 hp pump. I am thinking about using the one below:

    http://www.harborfreight.com/34-hor...-pump-with-stainless-steel-housing-68390.html

    Any input would be appreciated, Thanks and God Bless
  2. Texas Wellman

    Texas Wellman In the Trades

    Messages:
    522
    Location:
    SE Texas-Coastal
    Yes, you can use a CSCR (cap start, cap run) on your pump, even if it's a higher HP than your pump. You can go up, just not down.

    It won't save you much electricity, but it will use slightly less than an IR (induction run) box alone. The CSCR engages the start windings with the run windings, whereas a IR box only uses the start windings to start and then swaps to the run windings.

    No comment on the booster pump. I suspect it will not work for what you want it for. It boosts pressure, what you need is more volume, not pressure. Enter the CSV vs. VFD black hole.
  3. valveman

    valveman Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    4,391
    Location:
    Lubbock, Texas
    Actually I would not change out the ½ HP well pump. It is OK and a good thing for the heat pump to work at low pressure. You just need to use a booster pump for the house only. Let the heat pump run at low pressure, which will allow you to stay with the small ½ HP well pump. This will save considerable energy compared to increasing the size of the well pump.

    Then attach a booster pump that boost the pressure to the house alone. This booster will only run when the house needs water, which is a tiny amount of time compared to how long the heat pump runs, which gets its water from the well pump alone.

    See a diagram at this link:
    http://www.cyclestopvalves.com/csvapplications_8.html

    As for the booster pump you gave a link to; That is not a variable speed controller. It is one of those flow off, pressure on devices, that has an integral baseball size tank. Along with that pump, they are not very reliable. But they are cheap so you can just replace them every year or so as needed. Their Achilles heal is a small leak. If you have a dripping faucet, or forget to giggle the handle on the toilet, that pump will be cycled to death in short order. But it’s cheap, so you can just go get another one. Hopefully they have one in stock. Every time I count on picking something up at that company, they are out of stock. :(

    A quality brand name jet pump with a Cycle Stop Valve and 4.4 gallon size pressure tank makes a bulletproof booster pump system. Any flow rate you need, including small leaks, will not cause this system to cycle excessively. It may cost five times as much as that cheap pump, but it will still be giving good service 15 to 20 years from now. Not only will this save money in the long run, but will save a lot of aggravation. Pumps never quit at a good time. It is always Friday night, New Years eve, or just when you get a house full of company that you will be needing to replace that pump, and quick.
  4. fcbclan

    fcbclan New Member

    Messages:
    12
    Location:
    Forest City, Iowa
    I found a better pump I think.
    RED LION RJC Convertible Jet Pump

    Ideal for the supply of water to rural homes, farms or cabins with suction lifts up to 90 feet.
    Features
    • Rugged cast iron casing.
    • Shallow & deep well uses up to 90’.
    • Deep well injector & brass flow control
    valve included.
    • Glass filled thermoplastic impeller and diffuser.
    • Pressures to 87 PSI & flow rates to 20.2 U.S. GPM.
    • 30/50 pressure switch.
    • 1 1/4” suction, 1” discharge.
    • 2 Year over-the-counter warranty.

    Valveman, what are the two devices in the diagram after the pressure switches in the Two pump geothermal Diagram? and can I use CSV1 instead of CSV1W for the two CSV's
  5. fcbclan

    fcbclan New Member

    Messages:
    12
    Location:
    Forest City, Iowa
    what is the best water line to use? flex loop to eliminate 90 degree bends

    what is the best water line to use? flex loop to eliminate 90 degree bends or pipe with 90 degree bends. I am hooking up the two pump geothermal open loop in Valvemans diagram.
  6. fcbclan

    fcbclan New Member

    Messages:
    12
    Location:
    Forest City, Iowa
    I'll bet the item in the diagram is pressure relefe valves
  7. valveman

    valveman Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    4,391
    Location:
    Lubbock, Texas
    That is just a ball valve. Not absolutely necessary. The CSV1W won't set low enough for the first pump. It needs to be set about 15-20 PSI. The CSV1 will work and I can get them in 10 or 20 PSI, you just have to put them is a place where if they leak it won't hurt anything. The best place to install the CSV1 is in the well, because the small leak will not be noticed.
  8. valveman

    valveman Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    4,391
    Location:
    Lubbock, Texas
    No but there is a pressure relief just below the pressure tank on the other side.
  9. fcbclan

    fcbclan New Member

    Messages:
    12
    Location:
    Forest City, Iowa
    wrong CSV in the diagram

    Is the wrong CSV in the diagram for the two pump geothermal open loop diagram? The first one is to be 20 PSI and the CSV1W is 45-50 PSI so I guess the CSV1 would be the right CSV for the first one. I guess I could use a 20 PSI CSV for the first one and a 50 PSI CSV for the second one.
  10. fcbclan

    fcbclan New Member

    Messages:
    12
    Location:
    Forest City, Iowa
    does the CSV1W come in a 20psi?
  11. fcbclan

    fcbclan New Member

    Messages:
    12
    Location:
    Forest City, Iowa
    why would they leak and why would I install something that will leak
  12. valveman

    valveman Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    4,391
    Location:
    Lubbock, Texas
    No. But the CSV1A is adjustable from 15 to 150 PSI.
  13. valveman

    valveman Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    4,391
    Location:
    Lubbock, Texas
    It has much better flow characteristics, and is 1/3 the cost. They don't leak unless you have something abrasive or slimmy in the water, so we just assume every system does as a worst case scenario. You just need to put it in the well, in a valve box, or just out in the yard like they do in Florida, so if it does leak it won't hurt anything. When the leak it is only like 1 gallon a week. But that wouldn't be good in the basement. I have one that is 14 years old, but it is in the well so I don't even know if it leaks.
  14. fcbclan

    fcbclan New Member

    Messages:
    12
    Location:
    Forest City, Iowa
    I guess I still don't understand why do they leak , I am in north Iowa, everything is in my basement.

    The CSV1 leaks, But the CSV1A does not, and which one is 1/3 the cost
  15. valveman

    valveman Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    4,391
    Location:
    Lubbock, Texas
    The CSV1 is plastic, not adjustable, cost 1/3 as much as the metal valves, has better flow characteristics, but leaks a small amount if an o-ring gets cut with sand or slimmed over with something in the water.

    The CSV1A is adjustable, all Stainless Steel, will handle sand and debris without leaking, but has more friction loss, and cost more than the plastic valves.

    Of course you could replace the plastic valve three times for the same price as one of the SS valves. In your case the two valves will work almost exactly the same, so it is your choice.
  16. ballvalve

    ballvalve General Engineering Contractor

    Messages:
    3,261
    Location:
    northfork, california
    Don't support the harbor fright asians when you have domestic options. And anything with a motor in it from that industry killer is highly suspect. I have a Sears 49$ angle grinder that is going strong at 12 years. I tried the harbor death version for $9.99 and got 3 weeks out of it. Do the math. Tarps and hand tools for your workers to steal are a fair deal.

    Some examples....

    http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=1792402

    http://www.ohiopurewater.com/shop/customer/home.php?cat=357
  17. fcbclan

    fcbclan New Member

    Messages:
    12
    Location:
    Forest City, Iowa
    How much would a (1) 20 PSI CSV1 be? and how much for (1) 50 PSI CSV1 and is there shipping?
  18. valveman

    valveman Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    4,391
    Location:
    Lubbock, Texas
    The 20 PSI is not a standard item. You will need to call for a part number and we will help you find a place to purchase. 800-652-0207
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