can I fix my shower curb myself?

[kjb30]

Hope someone has some great advice for me, I have a situation with the tiles on the outside of the shower curb. The bathroom was renovated about 8 years ago by a previous owner. We have lived here about 3 months, and when we first moved in I noticed one tile was a bit loose on the right exterior side of the curb. Some grout was missing, and the tile was pushing forward. So, this week I had a look, thinking there may have been some water seeping in there and loosening the tile. I realized there were quite a few areas around the top of the curb where water could have been getting in, although we are pretty careful and always swing the door into the shower. I popped the most obviously loose tile off, and realized that someone had caulked along the floor recently, which was was was essentially keeping the tile on the wall. There was mold and wet backer board (I think...it was green on one side), so I pulled this out and pulled off the 6 or so tiles along the curb. I cleaned out the wet board and this is what I am left with.

I know there should be a moisture barrier, I did not see one until I took the photo where you can see the thin orange line. After I cleaned out the sides and saw the liner on the inside of the shower area I realized the liner must be orange. It just comes over the top of the curb but obviously does not extend down in front. I can see concrete under the tiles on the top of the curb and along the side where it meets the wall. It looks like there is a gap there, could the water be getting in through the sides of the doorway, where the vertical tile meets the curb? The wood is wet, but not rotted, and the wetness only seems to extend along the curb. After only a few hours it is much drier. I cannot see if there is water under the shower but we have no issues in the ceiling of the kitchen which is below the bathroom. However, when I reach up to feel the drywall behind the tiles it is damp so I know I have to remove more tiles to see how far up the wetness goes.

What do I need to do? Can I somehow repair this without damaging the rest of the curb? Does anyone have any advice for me? I have tiled my own backslash in the kitchen and done minor tile repairs before, but nothing where I am concerned that the initial job was not done properly. Thanks for any suggestions!!

 

[JohnfrWhipple]

Yuck.

It looks like the liner has been nailed to the curb and you have a large repair on your hands. I would never repair that. I would rip out the shower and start over.

Wood has no place in a shower curb. None.

banned in Australia for good reasons.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[ShowerDude]

tear it out . any patch/ repair requires a new pan liner. and rotten lumber to be removed.

also any patch or repair would be at best very temporary.

we build better showers these days. find a professional that is focused on tile showers.

not a sometimes i build showers..... or a part time shower builder, but a pro who builds showers..... is my best advice.

sorry you have this bad news on your hands, good luck...

 

[Jadnashua]

A wooden core curb will work on a wooden subfloor (millions of them have been built and can last forever), but only if it is covered properly with waterproofing, just like the rest of your house - your roof doesn't rot, your walls don't rot IF the waterproofing is done properly. Sadly, many people don't know how, or don't care to follow the instructions and industry guidelines to do a shower properly. Building one isn't technically hard, but is very detail oriented. One little mistake, and the whole thing can be compromised.

As said, there isn't an easy fix for this...anything you do would be a short-term patch. Given what is visible, there could be lots of other damage hidden beneath the tile in the rest of the shower as well.

It appears that they put a liner over the curb, then screwed through it to anchor what may be greenboard (hasn't been allowed in a shower for decades), compromising the liner. A properly built shower should be water-tight BEFORE the tile and grout are installed...the tile is NOT the waterproofing layer, the liner is, and it won't work with holes punched through it, or open seams.

 

[kjb30]

Thanks for your thoughts and suggestions. I was hoping maybe we could salvage this somehow, but I do understand that to fix it properly we need to redo (at the very least) the liner for the whole shower in order that it is one solid piece - with no nail or screw holes through it on the curb!

It is so upsetting to think that someone took the time to make a lovely bathroom but then made such a huge mistake which I now get to pay for.

I am trying to find someone to come and take a look...we just moved here so I do not know of anyone but will be sure to find someone who specializes in bathrooms.

How would you approach this ...does the whole shower have to be redone, or is it possible to just remove the lower third part of the shower and redo the liner and pan? When it is redone should the exterior of the curb be concrete board as well? ( I have opened things up enough now to see that they used concrete board inside the shower.

Thanks for your time everyone!

 

[Jadnashua]

At the minimum, and by the time you get there, the rest of the walls are not all that much more, you need to gut at least about 5" above the top of the curb and the pan, and probably more, depending on the size of the existing tile. This is so that you can install a new liner which can't have any holes below 3" above the top of the curb. Since you can't anchor the new cement board (cbu) down near the bottom because you can't put holes in there, you at least need some room at the top to screw it in, then you run it down over the liner (after you've notched the studs and set the blocking back to account for the thickness of the liner and the folds at the corners) and make your setting layer of the mudbed up to it, locking it in place. To keep things solid, you have to put in blocking between the studs to hold things from bulging outwards.

By the time you've done that, then trying to match the existing tile, most people bite the bullet and start over.

IMHO, of the available methods to build a shower that work, I prefer a surface applied waterproof membrane, but to do that, it must continue up to at least the height of the showerhead, so isn't viable for a retrofit where you aren't doing a full tear-out.

 

[JohnfrWhipple]

The codes for building shower are very loose. There is practically no inspections and a hundred different ways to build it.

Three years ago we did a band aid repair. For a buddy. He had tiled four showers in a new home. The daughters was leaking. Holes in membrane at curb tie in.

So he went back - banged out the lower tile course and I fixed the base and waterproofed up the walls 18".

Same lady (owner of house) calls me last week. Now the master shower is leaking into the guest bathrooms ceiling. She wants another band aid. I said no.

So - she told me she was going to call the builder back in. Same guy that build the first four showers. And his track record is 50-50 in four years.....

You are in a tough spot. There is no official text book to follow in a repair like yours. Even the industry guidelines leave lots to be desired and are missing all sorts of specifications to follow.

I think the biggest problem you will have with the repair is most likely the tile in there now was set with Mastic. So when you board the lower section you will want to use a thinner backer board. This means more blocking, Then you can wrap your waterproofing up the wall a way and still use thin-set to set the new tile.

 

[kjb30]

Thanks, I appreciate the info. I have had three contractors in to see the bathroom so far. Two feel that they would be able to do a repair and would cover the curb with a single solid piece of marble, to minimize any leakage if there are screwholes in the liner. (I have not taken the tile off the top of the curb. I figure once that comes off we will know even more about how the water is getting through.)

The third suggests tearing out the lower half of the shower and replacing entire pan and liner. He feels that there is a chance that the corners of the liner close to the for were not folded properly as well as maybe damage from screws.

Will see what the estimates come in at and I have someone else coming tomorrow. Thanks!

 

[Jadnashua]

When you use a liner like that, there are lots of places to make errors. Nails or screws are only one of them. In order to make the flap over the curb, you have to cut the liner, and that needs to be seamed. They may dam corners specifically for this. THen, around the drain itself, the weep holes need to be kept free to allow moisture to drain out through those weep holed underneath the tile on top of the liner. If the liner doesn't have blocking on the lower section between the studs, it's hard to contain things properly and keep it waterproof. If you don't notch the corners of the studs, when you fold the liner, it will end up bulging out, and make it nearly impossible to keep the walls at the corners from bulging out.

Building a shower isn't really all that hard, but it is VERY detail oriented...messing up one point can spell disaster that might show in in months, or even after many years, depending on what is wrong and how much the shower is being used.

Unless you tear out the pan, there is NO way to properly waterproof things up to and over the curb. FWIW, when performing this method of building a shower, the liner over the curb should only be anchored on the outside, and you need to then use some lath and then build up mud over the curb. Someone that says they can just repair the curb does not understand how to build a proper shower. There's no way you can just use drywall or cbu anchored to the curb as your setting bed for the tile...that will destroy the liner. There are other methods to make a shower that would allow that material, but that would require building a surface applied membrane that is designed to then accept tile directly on top of it...a 'conventional' shower as you have (or at least appear to have) requires a mudbed as the surface that you then tile on the pan and the curb.

 

[JohnfrWhipple]

Hmmm.

Two hacks and one guy willing to try a band aid. From what you wrote so far I think the third guy is looking like the best option.

Pricing is hard to understand.

Is the tile that is being repaired being set with thin-set or mastic?
Are the cut tile edges being polished or not?
Is the tile being installed with a dot method of install or trowel?
Will the repair work be flood tested or not?
Is there a pre-slope, yes or no?

On
and
On
and On

the problem with this business is most guys are clueless. The rest think they are right. And many helpful men are in fact paid Ghost writers. So you get in a pickle. Who do you trust? What should you do?

Your job is not a cosmetic one. Your home is rottening. This could lead to health problems, insect problems and maybe even structural problems. Get three quotes. All three should be full shower pan removal and repair. Keep bringing in men until you have three quotes like this.

Good Luck....

 

[ShowerDude]

KJB30

Your shower is shot. I would caution you of wasting your money on a patch.... tear it out and all ALL ALL the rotten lumber you find and rebuild cleanly and properly. There is more long term damage to your home, and health concerns to you and your family to take into consideration.

edit rant