Calling all water quality experts for recommendations. - moved form pumps and tanks

Discussion in 'Water Softener Forum, problems, installation and r' started by Dunner, May 15, 2013.

  1. Dunner

    Dunner New Member

    Messages:
    13
    Location:
    Celina, Tx
    Hello all,
    I have also posted on Pumpsandtanks forum but thought it couldn't hurt to get some other opinions as well since i have pretty terrible water.

    I just purchased a Zilmet 202 pressure tank from Speedbump and a 40-60 pressure switch. just waiting for them to arrive.

    have noticed lately that i get a lot of sediment caught up in my faucets, washing machine and showers as well as visible sediment in the bath tub with lots of rust staining in toilets and showers. Our well water is very poor quality (see below water analysis)and we do not use it for drinking but do use it for laundry and showers, etc.

    What kind of filtration system would you recommend? sediment filter like the LAKOS TwistIIClean or maybe a larger 4.5 X 20 In Big Blue (run two in series)?
    I have limited room in the existing well house (4 X 4 ft 48 Inch tall. essentially a large Dog house)

    Primary goal is to cleanup the water for bathing and laundry.

    I think due to the TDS of 3,613 ppm the only way i could every drink it is to install a RO system.

    Existing well is 500 ft with the pump motor at 440 ft. Locally drilling is $38/ft and the next aquifer is at 1500 ft (very cost prohibitive)

    According to the well driller here is what i have for a well:
    Depth 500 ft
    Pump at 440 ft on 1 1/4 galvanized
    4 inch ID casing
    60 ft of screening
    30 GPM

    We had the water tested by Texas A&M and here are their results:
    Calcium 10 PPM
    Magnesium 5 PPM
    Sodium 1180 PPM
    Potassium 7 PPM
    Boron 4.29 PPM
    Carbonate 0 PPM
    Bicarbonate 611 PPM
    Sulfate 323 PPM
    Chloride 1474 PPM
    Nitrate <.01 PPM
    Phosphorous .25 PPM
    pH 7.95
    Conductivity 5880 umhos/cm
    Hardness 3 grains CaCO3/gallon
    Hardness 45 PPM CaCO3
    Alkalinity 501 PPM CaCO3
    Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) 3613 PPM
    SAR 76.8
    Iron .20 PPM
    Zinc .03 PPM
    Copper < .01 PPM
    Manganese .02 PPM

    Any thoughts on how to best and economically solve this equation? (i realize best and economically are counter intuitive.) :)

    Thanks in advance,
    Jim

    also I have had some places recommend a whole house RO system but that sure is expensive and if I can filter out what is needed for bathing and laundry I am thinking a small RO system for drinking water would suffice at the Kitchen sink.

    Right now we haul in bottled water for drinking or fill jugs at inlaws.
  2. ditttohead

    ditttohead Water systems designer, R&D

    Messages:
    1,789
    Location:
    Ontario California
    We had the water tested by Texas A&M and here are their results:
    Calcium 10 PPM
    Magnesium 5 PPM
    Sodium 1180 PPM
    Potassium 7 PPM
    Boron 4.29 PPM
    Carbonate 0 PPM
    Bicarbonate 611 PPM
    Sulfate 323 PPM
    Chloride 1474 PPM
    Nitrate <.01 PPM
    Phosphorous .25 PPM
    pH 7.95
    Conductivity 5880 umhos/cm
    Hardness 3 grains CaCO3/gallon
    Hardness 45 PPM CaCO3
    Alkalinity 501 PPM CaCO3
    Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) 3613 PPM
    SAR 76.8
    Iron .20 PPM
    Zinc .03 PPM
    Copper < .01 PPM
    Manganese .02 PPM



    You have some nasty water. It is brackish and a whole house RO might make sense, but it is costly and not overly necessary.

    A properly designed RO for drinking water is very important. I would recommend and RO with a booster pump to keep the pressure at 80 PSI on the feed water, and a permeate pump would also be a good idea. I would also recommend a slightly larger than normal storage tank. It would be highly recommended to use the water regularly from your RO, with water this bad, the product water will be much better if you use it more.

    As to the whole house, most of your dissolved mineral can be ignored so long as the water is not consumed. The low levels of iron can be removed with a simple oxidation/birm type of system. Do you have an atmospheric storage tank? How much money are you willing to spend?

    PM sent
  3. Dunner

    Dunner New Member

    Messages:
    13
    Location:
    Celina, Tx
    Ditto head,

    Thanks for the response.

    I know very little about water filtration so please bear with me.

    Do you think a birm system like the Digital Birm 20 pr 30 System Fleck 7000 SXT would clean the water up enough for laundry and bathing and also as pre filter for under sink RO system for drinking water?

    If this would work I would be looking at $1500 which is reasonable.

    You also asked about a atmospheric storage tank. I do not have one now. Would I need one with the birm system?

    Thanks, Jim
  4. Dunner

    Dunner New Member

    Messages:
    13
    Location:
    Celina, Tx
    Ditto head,

    I mistakenly typed Total Dissolve Solids when the report say Total Dissolved Salts.
    Not sure if that makes a difference or not.

    Calcium 10 PPM
    Magnesium 5 PPM
    Sodium 1180 PPM
    Potassium 7 PPM
    Boron 4.29 PPM
    Carbonate 0 PPM
    Bicarbonate 611 PPM
    Sulfate 323 PPM
    Chloride 1474 PPM
    Nitrate <.01 PPM
    Phosphorous .25 PPM
    pH 7.95
    Conductivity 5880 umhos/cm
    Hardness 3 grains CaCO3/gallon
    Hardness 45 PPM CaCO3
    Alkalinity 501 PPM CaCO3
    Total Dissolved Salts (TDS) 3613 PPM
    SAR 76.8
    Iron .20 PPM
    Zinc .03 PPM
    Copper < .01 PPM
    Manganese .02 PPM
  5. ditttohead

    ditttohead Water systems designer, R&D

    Messages:
    1,789
    Location:
    Ontario California
    Sorry, I have to make this very short. Heading out of town tonight.

    Birm is spectacular, cheap, simple, and cursed. it does not work well if there is no dissolved oxygen in the water. That is the determining factor. many people will install the birm system with the understanding that additional oxidation (air, chlorine, etc,) may need to be added later.

    I am sure other will chime in shortly with more advice.
  6. Dunner

    Dunner New Member

    Messages:
    13
    Location:
    Celina, Tx
    Wow just received a quote from RainDance Water Systems.

    Does this even sound remotely reasonable? If so I may have to consider the local water (Maylee) water district proposal to get water back to my house from their main which will include a Rail Road bore and 1/2 mile of pipe.

    Hi Jim,


    Your water chemistry exceeds any point of use reverse osmosis system. The smallest unit we offer to treat your very high TDS, sodium, sulfate, SAR, chloride, and conductivity (all will need to be treated with an ro system) is our TV-2000 which can produce up to 2000gpd. I have attached a detailed price quote which includes pretreatment, storage tank, and our standard re-pressure pump.

    Model: TV-2000 Premium Reverse Osmosis System Price $5,898.00

    Model: TV-2000 (2,000GPD) Reverse Osmosis Systems Include The Following Premium Features:
    .. Stainless steel frame, structural ABS control panel
    .. Casters for mobile portability - Each TV-RO unit is equipped with wheels for maximum portability.. On / Off Switch
    .. Float Switch For Atmospheric Tank
    .. 20” Carbon Prefilter - Protects Membrane provides sediment and debris.
    .. Quick connect brine and product connections
    .. Feed and membrane vessel pressure gauges
    .. Product water flowmeter
    .. Brine and recirculation flow meters with integral needle valves
    .. Superior Water Quality Monitoring: Allows you to easily test your water before and after the TV Reverse Osmosis Water System. Portable waterproof tester offers high accuracy electrical conductivity (EC), total dissolved solids (TDS) and temperature measurements in a single tester!
    .. Low pressure cut off
    .. High pressure switch
    .. Patented PureFlush membrane flush feature - Clean water flushes the membrane upon start-up
    .. Low energy, thin film membrane element(s)
    .. "The TV series of R.O. water treatment systems are equipped with a microprocessor based controller which monitors several functional conditions and regulates operation of the high pressure pump and control valves. The controller is connected to sensors which, depending on their state, allow the cyclic production of purified water or prevent operation due to abnormal conditions. The standard configuration of the controller monitors feed water supply pressure for minimum level, product water storage tank level for system start/stop conditions and product water conductivity for maximum set point value and for digital front panel display. Additional optional parameters that the controller is capable of monitoring include main pump high pressure set point, low feed water tank level and membrane flush cycle occurrence and duration. Front panel buttons and digital display allow operator adjustment of set points and flush parameters."
    .. New 2013 Separate Feature: Water Alarm now included with every TV Series Reverse Osmosis Water Purification Order. Alarm can be floor or wall mounted. Includes 6ft of wire attached to the sensor and up to 100 feet of additional wire can be spliced into the line. No Plumbing Necessary - Perfect for monitoring from your office, home, or work area.
    ..Custom to treat up to 6500ppm TDS

    SPECIFICATIONS:
    .. Dimensions: 22”W x 25”D x 49”H (2000KGPD)
    .. Weight: 200 lbs. depending on model
    .. Output*: TV-2000 GPD
    .. Membrane: Low energy, high rejection 4040 thin film type
    .. Dissolved Solids Rejection: 98%
    .. Prefilter: 10 micron polypropylene depth type
    .. Power Req.: 220v 60hz. - Approximately 8 amps
    .. Connections: Feed - 3/4”FPT, product and tank - 1/2” tube
    .. Operating Parameters: Max TDS-5000ppm, Total iron is less than 0.3ppm, Manganese is less than 0.05ppm, Water hardness below 5 gpg.
    .. FREE Shipping within the continental US


    Options List:

    Iron Eater-125-10 Pretreatment:
    Hard Water Softener & Iron Removal Pretreatment System:
    Premium Multi-purpose Hard Water & Iron Pretreatment With Our Iron Eater-125-10 Series : Special Package Price Only. The RainDance Water Systems Part #: Iron Eater-125-10 - Space Saving Compact Design Dual Water Softener & Iron Removal Pre-Treatment System. Reduce costs and conserve resources - This system offers both soft water and iron removal pretreatment prior to the TV Series Reverse Osmosis System. Media Tank Dimensions: 10"x54" Total Height 64", Brine Tank 18"x40", Power: 110v, Digital Metered Control Valve - Regenerates on water usage for greater efficiency, 1" Connections With Bypass Valve, Flow Rate: 12gpm, Backwash Flow Rate Needed: 2.8gpm. We save you time - This system is delivered to you with the media tank & valve fully assembled. * Limited Time Special Package Price is available with the purchase of any TV Reverse Osmosis. Both TV Reverse Osmosis and Iron Eater-125-10 must be purchased at the same time. No exceptions. *
    Part #: Iron Eater-125-10 Pretreatment System Special Package Price: $ 995.00


    Atmospheric Product Storage Tank $ 995.00
    34”D x 82”H, 300 gallon capacity, Opaque green HDLPE.
    10” manway, vacuum and pressure relief cap.
    Fitted with inlet and outlet and drain valve.
    Includes installation of 1 float switch.
    One float switch and weight for system control by tank level.
    Delivery Pump - Output is 10 gpm at 48psi Price: $ 695.00
    Draws water from storage tank and delivers to end usage.
    Power is 220V 60hz, 1-phase. Motor is 1 hp.
    Output is 10 gpm at 48psi.
    Pump has integral switch for 40/60 psi output control, check valve and integral
    low feed water protection shutdown.

    Model: TV-2000 Premium Reverse Osmosis System Price $5,898.00

    Shipping: Free shipping within the continental US ETA – 2-4 Weeks $ 0.00



    Total Equipment Price $8,583.00
  7. Tom Sawyer

    Tom Sawyer In the Trades

    Messages:
    3,046
    Location:
    Maine
    You indeed have some nasty water there and honestly, almost nothing you do is going to be satisfactory for very long and will require a whole lot of maintainence. There is no "cheap" way out of your problem.
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