Buying a house with plumbing issues.

[Lakes268]

Hello,

I'm about to buy my first house and I'm looking for some advice. Professional or not Bear with me on this long post.

There was an owner-installed bathroom in the basement of this pre-forclosure house. A permit was never pulled and it was never inspected by a licensed plumber at any point and thus city papers were never completed. My house inspector had questions about the venting of the tub/shower & toilet. I called a plumber to inspect it, and sure enough, nothing is vented, the tub/shower drain into the concrete is too small (1.5" vs 2") and was probably done incorrectly. The city needs the plumbing "certified" before I can move in, so that leaves me with two options.

#1. I rip the bathroom up, then have a plumber redo just the plumbing at about $3,000 (rough estimate by the plumber, not estimator). Jackhammer concrete, replumb, tie into existing venting, etc. Extra money I am not ready to pay at this point.

#2. I rip up the bathroom and then properly cap the plumbing and declare it no longer a bathroom. The bathroom is essentially brand new, so all the fixtures (tub, toilet, vanity, etc) would be saved and stored for a later time when I can properly redo the bathroom. Such a shame to have to tear up a nice new bathroom, but there are no other options at this point.

Option #2 is the most viable for me, so my question is: Do you see any issues satisfying a city inspector by capping everything off? The water supply would be easy I assume, just solder on some copper caps. How about the drains? Even though they are too small (1.5" vs. 2") Would a simple PVC cap adhered to the protruding tub drain do it? How about the toilet?

Thanks in advance!

 

[Mikebarone]

Maybe?

There is a device that can be installed that allows venting, where you don’t have to tie the vent pipe into the existing pipes. This device is spring loaded and opens while venting is needed, and then springs shut, not allowing sewer gases into the room. I can’t remember the name of it off the top of my head, but I could find out what it’s called. I don’t know if it would be allowed, (code) where you’re at, but it might be worth wild to look into.

Mike

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Patrick88]

Hello,

I'm about to buy my first house and I'm looking for some advice. Professional or not Bear with me on this long post.

There was an owner-installed bathroom in the basement of this pre-forclosure house. A permit was never pulled and it was never inspected by a licensed plumber at any point and thus city papers were never completed. My house inspector had questions about the venting of the tub/shower & toilet. I called a plumber to inspect it, and sure enough, nothing is vented, the tub/shower drain into the concrete is too small (1.5" vs 2") and was probably done incorrectly. The city needs the plumbing "certified" before I can move in, so that leaves me with two options.

#1. I rip the bathroom up, then have a plumber redo just the plumbing at about $3,000 (rough estimate by the plumber, not estimator). Jackhammer concrete, replumb, tie into existing venting, etc. Extra money I am not ready to pay at this point.

#2. I rip up the bathroom and then properly cap the plumbing and declare it no longer a bathroom. The bathroom is essentially brand new, so all the fixtures (tub, toilet, vanity, etc) would be saved and stored for a later time when I can properly redo the bathroom. Such a shame to have to tear up a nice new bathroom, but there are no other options at this point.

Option #2 is the most viable for me, so my question is: Do you see any issues satisfying a city inspector by capping everything off? The water supply would be easy I assume, just solder on some copper caps. How about the drains? Even though they are too small (1.5" vs. 2") Would a simple PVC cap adhered to the protruding tub drain do it? How about the toilet?

Thanks in advance!

ya I would just remove and cap the plumbing. You should not have much trouble doing it. I don't know what they might be looking for to satisfy inspectors. They might want a full removal as in remove the wye's or what ever is connecting the fixture drains.

You might be able to just cut and cap the drains and water supplies with out fully taking the place apart. ya know just to satisfy the sale.

 

[Patrick88]

There is a device that can be installed that allows venting, where you don’t have to tie the vent pipe into the existing pipes. This device is spring loaded and opens while venting is needed, and then springs shut, not allowing sewer gases into the room. I can’t remember the name of it off the top of my head, but I could find out what it’s called. I don’t know if it would be allowed, (code) where you’re at, but it might be worth wild to look into.

Mike

Pro vent's are not allowed every place. I for one live in a state that doesn't care for them. I also would rather not rely on a mechanical device if it can be avoided.

 

[Cass]

Hello,


The city needs the plumbing "certified" before I can move in, so that leaves me with two options.

Where did this info come from???

I have never heard of anything like this on an existing home.

 

[Patrick88]

Where did this info come from???

I have never heard of anything like this on an existing home.

Could be a friend of the former owners, or it could be one of those crazy Mass inspectors

I also want to say:

the tub/shower drain into the concrete is too small (1.5" vs 2")

What?? I'm sure 1.5" is fine for tub/showers in every place, but I know Mass not every place

 

[Cass]

How do you know the OP is from Mass?

 

[Cass]

I have never heard of an occupancy permit requirement on the sale of an existing home.

 

[Lakes268]

The house is in Minnesota and this particular city is notorious for being picky on inspections. The city forces you to set up an escrow account for the repairs (1.5 times the cost of the repairs!) and they state "if certifications are required, no one shall occupy the premises until certifications are completed and proper paperwork is submitted to the city....." The city inspection stated "Licensed plumbing contractor to certify work on city form".

If this wasn't a foreclosure situation the owners would have to deal with it of course. The price I pay for getting a deal!

As for the 1.5" vs. 2" drain, the plumber mentioned it needed to be 2". I found MN plumbing code somewhere online and I think it said tubs needed to be 1.5", and showers needed to be 2". I guess being a tub with a shower they required 2"?

I'm really just trying to please the city at this point so I can actually move in. Tying up my money in escrow is just terrible. According to my agent, almost every other city in the Minneapolis area just makes you sign a form saying you'll fix the problems. That's it! Ugh...

 

[Patrick88]

How do you know the OP is from Mass?

sorry I was just saying "I know Mass" as in me. I had know idea till now were he was from

 

[Patrick88]

If you have a bath tub then I would bet 1.5 is fine.

I would see if you can cap the water lines and get plugs for the drains. I would also get a second opinion on the whole 1.5"-2" tub drain. I doubt they want you to rip everything out just to buy the house. You could redo everything at a later date.

 

[Lakes268]

If you have a bath tub then I would bet 1.5 is fine.

I would see if you can cap the water lines and get plugs for the drains. I would also get a second opinion on the whole 1.5"-2" tub drain. I doubt they want you to rip everything out just to buy the house. You could redo everything at a later date.

I'll definitely take a closer look at the 1.5" vs. 2". If 1.5 is indeed what is required, that would help a lot. I tried to call the city yesterday to get more clarification on this whole situation, but the proper person wasnt at their desk. From what my real estate agent and I can gather from the city papers, they do need the plumbing certified be before I can move in. Once they have the repair money in escrow, then I can close.

Is this what it's like to own a house? LOL Maybe I'll stay in the apartment

 

[Nate R]

If that is the requirement in your city, that's crazy.

Ridiculous.

I believe it would be pretty rare to require 2" for a Tub/Shower unit.

 

[Frenchie]

1-1/2 is standard for a tub, but 2" is code minimum for any buried pipe.

Rip it out, cap everything. Ask the city how extensive that needs to be. It could be kind of major - one of the plumbers mentionned something like this on another thread, something about having to pour cement down the drains to make sure it wouldn't be put back. Easier than digging them up, I guess.

 

[Raucina]

This is absurd. Fight the city, they have no business being in your basement for any reason.

How is it that the city got involved in your bathroom anyway?

Was the place red tagged or condemned? Your inspector turned you in?

We have become a country where critical issues arise between a 1.5" and 2" pipe with soapy water running thru it?

Find a plumber that hates such big brother intrusions into our personal life that slaps the face of our constitution authors - offer him a keg of beer and get the certification. F%^*&*%%$k the county fathers that preserve their jobs by insulting and invading our personal spaces.

We have a local engineer that certifies anything very cheaply that he considers "intrusive" attacks by the county boneheads. God bless him! Hopefully each county in America still has practical engineers with a will to right wrongs.

I had a house red tagged - the septic was for 2 bedroom, the house had 3 because someone added a door to the office or den! The county got involved because the crack dealing renters complained in order to buy time on their eviction. Imagine that the crack house trash got such good service from our county fathers! The landowner and tax payer got the shaft while they lived for free. Kicked the debri out, removed the den door, got the county off the attack. We have reduced our sensibilities to where we judge the capacity of a house by how many doors are before an enclosed space.

Most of this is political, and if you can play the game, you should win.

 

[Cass]

You shouldn't have to remove anything.

They can maybe make you render the plumbing system inoperable for that room,
but they can't tell you where you can store your fixtures.

They can be stored right where they are now.


Check / read the wording of the ordnance.

Once the plumbing system is inoperable it is no longer a bathroom.

 

[Master Plumber Mark]

You are ABOUT to buy a foreclosure...correct??

If you have not bought the home yet...and the bank is
itching to sell that home and get it off the books.......

what you ought to do is threaten to walk away from the whole thing....


what happens in Indiana with HUD homes......

HUD wants to dump those homes so badly that
they are willing to give you a large discount for the
reapirs that have to be done to the home....

Give the bank a list of what is wrong withthe home...

give them a couple of estimates for what it is goint to
take to get the home back up to code to make livable...


then give them an ultimatum...... either give me the money
off the price of the house for what it is going to take to
make all the problems right (plus pain and sufferring) or have
them fixed for me before I move in.....

or I will find another house... just down the street.....


I give bids all the time for people wanting to play
bluff ***** with the bank......


very simple ....very easy.......

 

[hj]

bath

The problem you may have if you just remove and cap the lines, is that it may not satisfy the city. After all, what would prevent you from just uncapping them and reconnecting everything after the inspector leaves. They might require complete removal or sealing the drain lines by filling them with concrete.

 

[Gary Swart]

Studor Vents aka Air Admittance Vents can not be the sole venting system for a house. There must be at least one vent through the roof. As I understand it, some areas forbid their use and some plumber don't especially like them, however, they do work and might be of help in this situation. As far as the drain size, a tub/shower can get by with a 1-1/2" drain because if the drain clogs, the tub will provide protection from flooding. A shower alone needs the 2". The only thing that really should have to be addresses is the venting issue. Given the the stupidity of the other requirements in you city, they likely would not approve Studor vents. If you want more information on these vents, do a Google on "Studor Vents".

 

[Lakes268]

Wow, thanks for all the info! I think I definitely need to start getting more agressive with the city and bank who owns it.