Big Labor is here to stay

Discussion in 'Ian's Corner' started by Ian Gills, Feb 22, 2011.

  1. Cookie

    Cookie .

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    Since no one is asking this Ballsvalve, I will. Where is your compassion? Anyone of us is only one step, one pay check, one adverse event including a illness, from being homeless, jobless, and depending on welfare and others' help.

    Location is everything in Real Estate, but not in parenting a child or probably, much to your disbelief, education. Kids who are Harvard bound can get into just as much trouble as a kid in an Inner city school.
    Kids infact, who live in a rural area statistically speaking will commit crimes to a worse degree for fun. They are loaded with bullies. Usually, an inner city kid who commits a crime is to eat or to survive.

    Drugs are found my friend, anywhere, and in an expensive area the kids are doing more much expensive drugs, which makes their habit harder to kick. Inner city kids smoke grass, they can't afford coke.

    Food for thought.

    If anyone really wants to be a good parent, teach them right. Teach them to respect their fellowman instead of teaching ridicule, and to judge. Teach them compassion. Teach them to make a difference in this world, to make a difference in someone's life so they themselves, one day, will teach their children this. Then, maybe, the world would be a much better place to live then, the only real concern about real estate would be just how big a house or lot you want, or how many baths.
  2. pipehacker

    pipehacker New Member

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    Cookie, out of fairness to Ballsvalve you may want to re-read his posts. As I understand his position, he is advocating for the benefits of hard work. And the WPA did teach construction skills which resulted in some wonderful masonry, log and other craftsmanship. The bottom line as I see it is that we have lost the War on Poverty which was declared by LBJ and that many of the cures that we/big government have been administrating do nothing but perpetuate the problem. And Ballsvalve is right when he argues that a work ethic is necessary before this can change.
  3. Cookie

    Cookie .

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    I have no problem with hard work, but compassion goes a long long way.
  4. ianrtech

    ianrtech New Member

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    Ballsvalve comes across as i got mine every one else shoulb be able to get there own. im sure no one ever help him a long. gavin newsam put care not cash into sf. its not perfect but its better than giving the homeless money to go party with. i used to do work a the shelters. look at it from the kids view. they see pepole work every day of there life and have nothing. but the drug dealer got his. they can not aford collage which is not a garanty of a job and nether is vocational school. and if you get a job does it pay a living wage. can you even aford to work? yes the war on poverty is lost now they are coming for the middle class.
  5. Redwood

    Redwood Master Plumber

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    The WPA programs were a great idea that jumpstarted us out of the great depression....
    I would have been good to see something like that happen with our present economic mess...

    However, instead of doing that we bailed out the Insurance Industry, Wall Street & the Banks, along with some large corporations like GM & Chrysler...

    The majority of the people who would have benefited from a WPA type program are waiting for that to "Trickle Down" to them....
    They shouldn't be holding their breath considering it went to Bonuses for the people that created the mess....
  6. Ian Gills

    Ian Gills Senior Robin Hood Guy

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    Redwood's right. We need Government support for every day people and workers!
  7. ballvalve

    ballvalve General Engineering Contractor

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    Compassion, I assume meaning food and shelter given altruistically without work being done for the caregiver, is best reserved for the ill, the irretrievably mentally deficient, and the handicapped. We may, or very likely will join those ranks at some point in our life, so I advocate for that.

    When compassion is distributed without hard 'tests' of the individual, society ends up with these gigantic beasts that have to go sideways through the aisle of the Wallymart, with the checkout lane filled with entirely precooked and packaged food filled with corn syrup, chocolate and 80% packaging.... And frightening concoctions of chips in bags like bushel baskets. Flushed down with sodas the size of fire extinguishers.

    Since my back is blown out from moving too many rocks and trees, it's very frustrating to see these 300+ pound later day mammoths glide easily on legs the size of treestumps - because their knees never hit the dirt to plant a row of onions, or climbed a ladder. Sofa to microwave to store - repeat for 65 years.

    Compassion needs many checks and balances, and without a program to teach work ethics, our society will continue to slide into oblivion.

    I really think that a work gang of 20 inner city kids would benefit from a summer in the forest. Potatoes cooked in the coals of the brush pile fires. Fresh roadkill rabbits and squirrels and deer cooked on a spit daily. Tents without tweets. Drinking WATER as a novelty. Teach a few to collect the local edible wild greens.

    Nothing like skinning a deer to teach one the true source of his Denny's ribs and popeyes chicken.

    I'll just bet that 10 of those would rejoin society with real jobs after boot camp.

    Lots of jobs available in Kansas cutting up hogs and chickens that are now filled with illegals - because "compassion" was mis-applied, and ambition was squashed.

    Adversity is still the mother of invention. Ask those guys in kansas that crawled through the desert to get here and were raised on home ground corn meal in a mud shack.
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2011
  8. Cookie

    Cookie .

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    Your language in many respects shows a lack of respect for others and a lack of compassion, no mistaking that.
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2011
  9. ianrtech

    ianrtech New Member

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    ballsvalve your a redneck that lisens to much to fox news and talk radio to. yes i see what you saying. thou i'm not that norrow minded. no i would not like to work in a meat packing plant. why is it that they keep hirring ilegals. its bucaus they now they can walk all over them no ot "pay" breaks, health care, ect... they work for less money because 3 families will live in a 2 bedroom apt. the rights no amnesty line is going to make sure ture reform never happans. so the ilegales will keep bringing down wages. so why get off walfare if you loose to med, need daycare 600+ amo. ect. this is soppose to be about the need for unions. the us worker is the most productive! our compinsation sould show this. in the 70s labor gave up pay for benifits now there taking them away! 70s a ceo made 30 times that of the worker today 300+ times that of the worker and use every loop hole they paid for to get out of paying taxes. you need to open your mind and your heart and look at the big picture. are our schools failing because of bad teachers or are we getting what we pay for? because if one can teach one can get a job thats pays better! also if you really want to help i am sure there is a foster kid by you that needs a good home. if you can stop your self from blaming the kid for needing foster care
  10. ballvalve

    ballvalve General Engineering Contractor

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    Sorry to disturb you guys above, but I write to get images and thoughts that might spur some creative thinking. The social service workers are trapped in a morass of thought locked civil 'servants' that cannot go outside the box without risk of losing their pension.

    Fox news and talk radio? Not on my life! Don't put me in a slot because you do not understand that we need to go outside the box in order to regenerate self respect and self support. It is inside all of us, but its squashed by easy living on the dole.

    I come from a family of immigrants that never touched a dime of government money. My grandparents didnt grind corn on rocks, but they came damn close. Dad followed the coal trains with a bag for the droppings, and a .22 rifle for dinner when he was a kid. But if someone poorer and hungrier than him asked, he would have split the days work with the guy in a moment.

    Cookie, you are obviously a heartfelt giver. That is a great gift. But do not mistake my language for racism or hatred. Rather I am disgusted by a society that has created a food and support system that encourages multiple births from people that weigh nearly as much as a small car, and know not the meaning of the word nurture.

    I built my house on a rock, and over a library of books that amounts to several thousand tomes, collected from around a big piece of the earth starting with many in the 1500's. I read a bit of Latin, so I can enjoy some of those early ones. I have read the diaries of hundreds of holocaust survivors, and those of the German murderers. And I have met with 80 year old Slovak Jews that survived in the forest, near the homes of my ancestors. And I have slept on the sofa of my 3rd cousin that a German officer used for 2 years as his bed in the 2nd world war. During the day he rounded up Jews and sent them to Osswiciem. They say he was a very nice fellow otherwise.

    I spent many a New Years eve in my families mountain chateau on the Polish-Slovak Tatra mountain border. The Germans radio antennaes are preserved on the chimney. Here they tried to kill off the partisans that lived in holes in the forest.

    After a 'Andy Griffith' upbringing in Wisconsin, a few moments lying in a hole in the snow covered ground where these patriots froze and starved to death at the hands of the Germanic vermin, brings a rather hard line attitude toward gigantic welfare moms riding on a Kohls electric shopping cart.

    We are insulated from historic reality in America, and most do not travel to the sights of the horrors that will be repeated. Thus few will understand my writing.
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2011
  11. Cookie

    Cookie .

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    My father marched into Germany and rescued the Jews and what he saw he couldn't say without sobbing into his hands. When he would finally speak he could only say, " such a lack of compassion for another human being." He died without ever being able to undestand it. I don't think anyone can ever understand the racism and the hatred. But, you got to realize when you condemn another human being you are adding to the hatred and racism; it can be someone who looks different, has different beliefs, and different work ethics. I don't have any gifts Ballsvalve, only a whole lot of common sense in knowing what is right and what is wrong. I think, Ian is very correct when he said, about you blaming a child for needing foster care. You are not seeing the whole picture. You see an overweight person with chips at Walmart, and you see nothing else; you then assume the person is lazy and worthless. What a miserable mistake, can you not see that?
  12. ballvalve

    ballvalve General Engineering Contractor

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    Parents make children require foster care. I have not proposed otherwise.

    400 pounds, a store supplied scooter, 5 kids in rags eating candy bars, a wad of food stamps, and a counter full of junk food:

    Juries convict people of murder on less evidence.

    You will not see it in Europe.
  13. Cookie

    Cookie .

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    Back in 2000, I was put on mega does of steriods to treat the anemia chemo caused, and I had gained... 90 some pounds! This put me into the fatty category. I wasn't happy about it. I never touched a chip. We did the blood transfusions, when we could find the blood. My blood type is in the 1% of the total population in the US. The steriods caused 2 eventual heart attacks. But, this is now, 2011 and still, thankfully, alive. This anemia almost cost me my life. It was the closest ever I was to death.

    The scooters, ah yes, the scooters. My aunt used one because she had a heart attack and her heart was too weak to walk. Yes, she was a fatty. What would you had thought if you saw her? My husband was 6' feet and weighed 172 when he succumbed to a heart attack. Both of them, had genetic heart problems. One lived, one died. The one who died was because the medicine man failed to do his job. Would my husband had used a scooter if he had lived and needed to? I would had made sure he did. Would it had been different in what you thought if you would had seen him in a scooter?

    Then, I was put on new and improved drugs and lost weight. I had people asking me, " do you have an eating disorder honey?" The waitress in a restaurant gave me the evil eye when I ordered something light to eat, so much so was the hairy eye-ball, I had to tell her the truth, I was on chemo and the round of ah's... spoke her ignorance. At the time, I now weighed 88 pounds, way too skinny, I was an Olive Oil straight out of the cartoons or maybe, a person who looked like a Holocaust survivior.

    Oh my God, what is this world coming to, a kid eating a candy bar. I remember once many years ago, I was in the supermarket with a friend and we both had our kids with us. My younger son came up asking me if he could get a book. Being I was a member of the RIF, love reading, got an extensive library of my own and was impressed & happy as hell he asked because of his dyslexia the answer was, go for it, get a book.

    My friend's little girl came up asking her mom the same question, being I knew of the woman's financial difficulties none of which she made herself, it is called, life, I wasn't surprised when she said to just get a candy bar.

    OH MY GOD, I am sure what some other's thought around her. The kid asked for a book and was told to get a candy bar. What they didn't know and what facts wasn't available to them was she had a very sick mother and dad, taking care of both of them, physically and financially. Her and her husband was footing the bill, and using their own sweat in the process of being round the clock nurse's. It was a "splurge" for the little girl to get a candy bar and far less money than a book.

    Monday nights we all would go to the book mobile and get "free" loans on books. She would sit and read with her kids.

    I remember something growing up I had wished over a period of time I could had forgotten. I was a little girl sitting in church on Sunday and my mom was the best. My clothes was clean and very nice. But, maybe not nice enough for some folks, for the 2 old women dressed in better clothes, infact one was a fur, sitting next to me. I remember hearing that they said about me, it was "disgraceful" that I came to church in what they called and what you called, " rags."

    These were not rags. It was a pretty little dress which I was proud of, which wasn't good enough for them. Maybe, they didn't learn a lesson that day, unless, God taught them something in that church that day that I didn't hear or see, but, I know I learned a lesson. The lesson was not to judge.

    I remember looking at them so they know I even heard. I was convicted of what Ballsvalve? What is a kid convicted of for eating or wanting a candy bar?

    In life, in all walks of life, I will meet others who are different than me, but none better than me, none less than me, just different and those differences are what makes us all unique and it is global.

    When I see someone different than me, someone who needs help, I know they have a story to tell, a reason how and why it all happened. How they got to that point in their life, whether it be, they weigh 400 pounds, homeless, jobless, sick, anything else that life can throw at you. When we are lucky enough, strong enough, like some people tell me, that we can field those things and get well despite what doctors tell you; if you, can build a house on a rock and make it home, then, we need to help others be able to do the same. Some people are not as lucky as us, or as strong as us, and to share our strengths and abilities and our luck is the right thing to do. The only thing to do. I believe in the govn programs, and for those who need it, we need more of those, but we also, need people to open their hearts and minds and at times, their wallets to be their for others who need it to survive and to make a life easier to live.

    If you want to help someone, then help someone, do not judge. Buy them something healthier and say, " here, enjoy," with a smile on your face. I have dropped off bags of groceries to families through the years and left the bag on the porch. In it, if they had kids, you would find healthy stuff and a junk candy bar. Help them, don't lecture them, or judge them, offer them even a job, if in the position to, and remember the golden rule, of treating others the way you would want to be treated. Above all, don't eye their candy up they might think you want it.
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2011
  14. Ian Gills

    Ian Gills Senior Robin Hood Guy

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    Why not?

    You pay taxes now, don't you?

    What Americans need to understand is that Government is good.

    It's like a Bank. It helps you out in the bad times to get repaid in the good times.

    So use it. Why be ashamed? And why be a sucker to refuse accepting what is already yours?
  15. ballvalve

    ballvalve General Engineering Contractor

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    Trouble with government is that its a bank with no doors or windows, and they change their own rules like ones underwear.

    And cookie, I know about steroids, and those scooters are starting to look good on certain days. But the gals of which I speak are on Fritos, not steroids.
  16. Cookie

    Cookie .

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    If you know about steriods then, you also, know about the weight gain from them. The weight gain can be incredible depending on the reason for its useage. Mine was to be able to breath since, I had no red blood cells. Now, how on earth do you know that a person's overweight condition is from frito's and not steriods? Do you have xray vision? Do you live with all those people? Just because you see an overweight person with a cart full of junk, do not make the mistake of assuming it is all for them. Plus, additionally, many people will not disclose a health problem due to many reasons, one, is so they will not be judged for it.

    Leave the scooters for those who need it. I can assume you do not, trust that those who do use them, do need it. I am not so sure you understand what compassion is.

    Ian, my father would not fill out the paperwork for school grants, so, I had to work to pay for it. It was very difficult. Something, I thought was wrong and when, it came time for my sons, I filled out the grant paperwork to make life easier for them when they had to pay back the loans, it was a lessor amount over time. I encourage those to take advantage of the state grants, it is foolish not to.

    Life is sometimes, too hard, and too short.
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2011
  17. Ian Gills

    Ian Gills Senior Robin Hood Guy

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    Good on you Cookie! A clever country wouldn't require much paperwork at all for these types of grants because it would have sussed that a few dollars of educational allowance now is worth thousands of tax dollars later.

    But America is not a clever country when it comes to the role of Government. Trust me. Bigger and easier is better than smaller with too many checks and balance i.e. paperwork.

    At least those in America who don't like single moms to have kids but will gladly let them keep a gun are not in power.

    May they never come to power! They are simply not clever enough.
  18. ianrtech

    ianrtech New Member

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    ok ballvalve you like to stir the pot. but if in your collection of books you hace c.s. louwis's book the screw tape letters please read it. if not i'll send you a copy. i do belive your correct that a good amount of pepole on the dole need to get off the the sofa and get to work. but they need help and a job that will give them self respect. ie HONEST PAY for a honest days work that they can LIVE on not just survive. not a cadalic but not a used yogo either. to day most of the job market is in the service sector. clerks, store stockers, burger flippers, 20 to 35 hrs a week with no benifits yes ia person has to start some where but theres no place to go up to except for a few. bussiness has been sitting on a lot of cash but not using it to create jobs. now there buying the compition and down sizing. less comp higher prices less pay bigger bonusess for the top. who will out souce more wrk to places that won't think twice about puting lead in it or antifreze to save money and if there cauht they have say its a sub contractor or have a golden parichute. yes govt programs need to change to be more effective but that is differant than doing away with them all to gether. i'm not for deregulation but make the regs easy to follow for the little guy and storng so the big guy cannot get around the with a army of lawers and lobbeists and be eld acountable.
  19. Redwood

    Redwood Master Plumber

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    Is that what I said?

    If you think it is... Can I suggest visiting this website?
  20. Cookie

    Cookie .

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    The paperwork is alot Ian, but why do you think that makes us not clever. HA! My father was a man who fought for his country, fought for the freedom's of others. He laid his own life on the line to the point where he sacificed more than just his hearing. A balance is what needs to be found. Not socialism Ian. Never socialism. I am in favor of govn programs and state funds, and grants, but, BUT not to the point or the degree where you are fond of. I don't know if you can understand this.

    We need and can have the best of both worlds. We have been doing it for years. That is why we are the best country in this world, and everyone wants to live here. I do think, those who get their education here for free and agree to use it after graduation in their own country, to benefit their own county, should abide by what they had signed, too many do not. Their country loses and so does ours.


    Last edited: Mar 5, 2011
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