Best way to fix a non-leaking connection that looks bad

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homeowner95

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I installed an expansion tank over the weekend and used a brass tee to connect the tank to my water line. It was the first time I ever sweated a joint and the access to the location was not great (overhead in dark tight spot). Although the connection is not leaking (it's been 36 hours without a drop) I did a detailed visual inspection of the connection this evening with a magnifying glass (I'm the paranoid type) and see that the solder did not fully get pulled into one small area on one of the sides of the tee.

I'm guessing that this connection will almost certainly fail in the future. Is this always the case though? I did do a very meticulous job preparing the connection so I'm hoping that some solder from the adjoining areas made its way around via capillary action even though it's not visible externally (otherwise wouldn't it already be leaking?) I know, this is probably wishful thinking. Would it tend fail gradually or more likely suddenly gush? I realize there are many factors that probably make it impossible to answer this but I'm giving it a shot :)

I view my options as follows:

1) Wait and see.
2) remove the entire tee, try to clean the pipe ends and tee and try again
3) try to 'patch' the small area where the solder is missing.
4) cut it all out, start over with a copper tee (I used brass because it came with a female threaded end instead making for one less joint I had to solder but the brass is a pain with a home-depot bought propane torch I've learned). Anticipating that I might have issues, I bought some extra copper pipe and couplings so I can cut out the previously worked pipe segments.
 

Bluebinky

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Not a pro, but a few thoughts anyway...

- There may or may not be enough solder inside the joint. There is such a thing as too much solder too.

- If you try to reflow the joint and there is any water in the pipe near the joint, it will be difficult, if not impossible...

- When you heat the pipe, the air inside will expand and needs somewhere to go -- otherwise it will want to come out the joint.

- When I was teaching myself how to sweat copper, I did a few "destructive tests at my workbench -- cut joints open with hacksaw, reheated and pulled them apart, etc ... only after seeing what worked and what didn't did I have to confidence to do the "real thing".
 
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Dlarrivee

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Did you clean the joint with a damp rag after? I've noticed browned flux on some of my joints that look like pin holes but really aren't. They clean right off.

If you cleaned the joint well and applied solder around the sides that are fighting gravity, it should have done a good job...
 

Kreemoweet

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Don't worry about it. Really. You cannot see inside the joint. What you see at the rim does not matter. Of the thousands and thousands
of solder joints I've made, and seen made, not a single one that was prepped correctly has ever failed. Clean it up and be proud.
 

homeowner95

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I cleaned it. It's definitely about a 5 degree (of 360) region where there is a minute gap between the pipe and tee with no visible solder. Frankly, I'm very surprised that it's not leaking making me think that perhaps solder from the adjoining region made its way into the gap but is just not visible from the outside. This is on a 50 psi line so perhaps compression alone might be keeping the water in?

If I do end up redoing this, I plan to use a new copper tee which should be much easier to work with than the brass one. The only issue is that I also have to solder in a female threaded end. This connection won't hold under the force of gravity while I'm soldering so I'm thinking of turning the tee upside down to allow the female end to sit in the tee, soldering that joint first, and then quickly turning the tee around to face the right way to finish the other two connections to the pipe ends. Is this acceptable, any other ideas?
 

homeowner95

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Don't worry about it. Really. You cannot see inside the joint. What you see at the rim does not matter. Of the thousands and thousands
of solder joints I've made, and seen made, not a single one that was prepped correctly has ever failed. Clean it up and be proud.

That makes me less worried, thanks.
 

Gary Swart

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I think you worry over nothing, but if you are that unsure about a joint, you must understand that once water has been applied to a joint, you can not add solder to it. It would have to be redone. I agree that new fittings are easier to work with than old because of the time and effort to clean the old ones. The secret of soldering a joint is clean both the pipe and the fitting, use a good flux applied to both the pipe and fitting, heat the fitting until solder will flow when touched to the hot fitting (not the flame of the torch). Do not move the joint or apply water until it has cooled. Do that and your (and my) joints may not always be pretty, but they will not leak. Pretty comes with practice.
 

Mliu

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Here's my take on this...

IF the joint were to spring a leak, how much damage would be caused? If no damage (other than lost water), then you probably can accept it the way it is and just check it from time to time. However, if the water is likely to cause ANY damage, then you should re-do the fitting. Realize that even a small water leak onto wood members of your house can cause rot, mold, and other problems. And that's assuming it's simply in an unfinished basement space. If it's in a finished space, then your looking at floor damage, wall damage, etc. It's worth the peace-of-mind and cost savings (which could total in the thousands, depending on the damage that could be done) down the road to make sure that the joint is properly soldered.

Even if it's not leaking now, if the solder did not completely wet the joint around the circumference for the full-depth of the socket (and you already know that it didn't), then it can -- and probably will -- fail over time. The only question at this point is how much time. Realize that joints are subject to a lot more than just the static water pressure of 60-80psi (typical), but also dynamic pressure such as when you quickly close a valve (water hammer), thermal stresses, mechanical stresses from movement of the house, etc.
 

homeowner95

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Here's my take on this...

IF the joint were to spring a leak, how much damage would be caused? If no damage (other than lost water), then you probably can accept it the way it is and just check it from time to time. However, if the water is likely to cause ANY damage, then you should re-do the fitting. Realize that even a small water leak onto wood members of your house can cause rot, mold, and other problems. And that's assuming it's simply in an unfinished basement space. If it's in a finished space, then your looking at floor damage, wall damage, etc. It's worth the peace-of-mind and cost savings (which could total in the thousands, depending on the damage that could be done) down the road to make sure that the joint is properly soldered.

Even if it's not leaking now, if the solder did not completely wet the joint around the circumference for the full-depth of the socket (and you already know that it didn't), then it can -- and probably will -- fail over time. The only question at this point is how much time. Realize that joints are subject to a lot more than just the static water pressure of 60-80psi (typical), but also dynamic pressure such as when you quickly close a valve (water hammer), thermal stresses, mechanical stresses from movement of the house, etc.

You make excellent points, thank you. An earlier poster was on to something when he (I presume) suggested that what I'm seeing might be just browning rather than missing solder. I went back this morning in the light of day and it looks like it was just that, not missing solder. I feel more confident about leaving it alone now and simply monitoring it. As a precaution I put a 20 gallon container on the floor under it (no drain in the boiler room unfortunately) and plan to visual inspect it at least once per week.
 

hj

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To hold an upside down joint together, squeeze it with a pair of pliers. I either do it before the assembly then work the tubing in, or squeeze it afterwards then rotate the tubing to get better resistance.
 

homeowner95

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To hold an upside down joint together, squeeze it with a pair of pliers. I either do it before the assembly then work the tubing in, or squeeze it afterwards then rotate the tubing to get better resistance.

Interesting. I had thought of doing something like that but was concerned about screwing up the round on the tee opening. I guess if you're gentle and squeeze midway down the neck just enough to introduce some resistance it's okay. Thanks!
 
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