Best option for spa wiring

[JWelectric]

I, for one, think that blindly and unquestioningly following the rules is very dangerous. It's much better to use the code book as a guide, and to question everything. You just may be smarter than the folks who came up with the codes.

90.1 Purpose.
(A) Practical Safeguarding. The purpose of this Code is the practical safeguarding of persons and property from hazards arising from the use of electricity.
(B) Adequacy. This Code contains provisions that are considered necessary for safety. Compliance therewith and proper maintenance results in an installation that is essentially free from hazard but not necessarily efficient, convenient, or adequate for good service or future expansion of electrical use.
(C) Intention. This Code is not intended as a design specification or an instruction manual for untrained persons.

Just because it's to code doesn't make it right.

But it does make it legal

Just because it's a violation doesn't make it wrong.

But it would make it an illegal installation.

Refrigerator or freezer nuisance trips a required AFCI (it will happen), food gets above the 40 degree safety limit before the fault is corrected , family eats food and dies.

And just what killed them? 1) a defective Arc Fault 2) a defective refrigerator or freezer
Answer; a defective refrigerator or freezer
So I guess that this would not be a good example would it.

Generally speaking, what we consider "right" and "lawful" is only "right" and "lawful" because one person or a bunch of people with power have agreed to make it "right" and "lawful". The code, in your instance, may be perfectly adequate and safe. I just think that turning any code book into a "Bible" and taking every word literally without question, is not healthy.

Being that the codes are adopted into law then to do anything less that what is required by the codes would be unlawful and therefore would be wrong.
You are mistaken about the process of the making of the codes. Anyone can submit a proposal for a code change.
Once the proposal is submitted the Code Panel will vote on its acceptance. They will do one of four things. 1) accept the proposal, 2) accept it in part, 3) accept it in principle or 4) reject it out right.
Once the proposals have been through the Code Panel (no matter how they voted) the proposal moves on to the comment stage. Here every person that has the ability to read and write can make a comment about proposal and then the final step when anyone can go to the final stage and appeal the finding of the Code Panel.

So if there is something in the codes that someone disagrees with they have a avenue to make a change instead of just disregarding what has been adopted.

 

[Verdeboy]

So if there is something in the codes that someone disagrees with they have a avenue to make a change instead of just disregarding what has been adopted.

And no doubt the change will be approved before the job is completed.

Don't mind me. I'm just a free-thinking, tree-hugging, commie, non-comformist... "A product of the 60's."

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Alectrician]

And just what killed them? 1) a defective Arc Fault 2) a defective refrigerator or freezer

3) A operational AFCI required by the code. The freezer could have been functioning fine. The AFCI was doing what it is supposed to do. Stuff arcs ya know? Especialy things with contactors/relays. The first batch I ever put in would trip via toggle switch.

Hey...it was a stretch but I was under pressure to come up with an example and I thought it was not too bad.

 

[JWelectric]

The freezer could have been functioning fine.

Not if it opened a arc-fault or GFCI there is a problem with the equipment.

 

[Alectrician]

Not if it opened a arc-fault or GFCI there is a problem with the equipment

You must have missed this part.

The first batch I ever put in would trip via toggle switch.

Stuff arcs. All we can do is contain the arc.

Hopefully whoever designs and builds these things will figure out how to make them work properly in real life situations. I believe they ARE getting better.

 

[JWelectric]

Not if it opened a arc-fault or GFCI there is a problem with the equipment

You must have missed this part.

The first batch I ever put in would trip via toggle switch.

This sounds like an improperly installed circuit not something that the switch is causing.

I remember when the arc fault was first implemented there was a rash of trips in my area. When investigating the cause it was found that improper wiring was the fault instead of the device itself.

I remember one case where the electrician was one of those guys who never use the back stab on devices and runs 12 to all circuits and would never install lights and receptacles on the same circuit nor install more than 8 devices on one circuit.
He was so much better than all other electricians that he couldn’t even get an arc fault breaker to hold.
Do you think he thought it was something he was doing or do you think that it was those shoddy arc faults that he was installing?

With all the expert manners in which he was deeming himself as being such a good electrician he did not know that the neutrals from the switched receptacles and the neutral for the light circuit (two separate circuits) could not be tied together in the switch box. This paralleling of the neutrals was causing the arc fault breakers to open.
Once the neutrals of the two circuits were separated the arc faults held. Could this have been your problem with the switch?

 

[Alectrician]

This sounds like an improperly installed circuit not something that the switch is causing.

The circuits magically repaired themselves when I changed out the breakers.


Stuff doesn't always work like it's supposed to.

 

[JWelectric]

The circuits magically repaired themselves when I changed out the breakers.


Stuff doesn't always work like it's supposed to.

Did you replace it with another arc fault or a standard breaker?

 

[Alectrician]

Arc fault...inspected.

This was about 4 years ago when they first came into play here.



If it wan't inspected I would have used a standard breaker.



I remember GFCI's being like that (back when they were GFI's) in the early years. LOTS of nusiance tripping. I don't see it that much anymore.