Best Kohler Toilet for 2011

Discussion in 'Toilet Forum discussions' started by The Big Crapper, Mar 27, 2011.

  1. The Big Crapper

    The Big Crapper New Member

    Messages:
    11
    Location:
    California
    I was trying to identify the best Kohler toilet for 2011.
    I currently have a 3.5 water guzzler over 10 years old. I found I was eligible for a rebate to switch to a HET Toilet. I've always had Kohlers and am pretty partial to them. I reasearched the list provided from the rebate program and have narrowed down (2) toilets that I thought would be a good fit.
    Both of these seemed to get good reviews.

    1. Kohler Cimmaron elongated with class 6 flush (K-3609) 1.28 gpf
    Contains the standard flush and fill valves, which I researches was only like 35.00 to replace if needed.

    2. Kohler Highline classic elongated (K-3519) 1.0 gpf
    Contains the Sloan Flushmate Pressure Assist Valve... over 100.00 to replace.

    Now I have been reading mixed reviews from the Cimmaron class 6 regarding flushing and haven't heard much about the Sloan version. I figured that the cost of replacing the valves was an important fact to consider. But wonder how reliable the Sloan Flushamate Valve is?

    What is the best Kohler toilet for me to go with? Would appreciate your recommendations.
    Oh and want to stay within 300 to 400 price range.

    Thanks
  2. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    21,809
    Location:
    New England
    The Flushmate is pretty reliable. I personally gave up on Kohler awhile ago. I think Toto makes a better toilet. I'd look at the Toto Drake II or any of the others with their newest dual-cyclone flush (the II designation). Great bowl wash, very quiet, good quality. A toilet is more than just style, it is something that just needs to work right for a very long time. Unless you have a really weird older color you are trying to match, you should at least consider some others.

    Some might say it's like asking what was the best Yugo...
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2011
  3. The Big Crapper

    The Big Crapper New Member

    Messages:
    11
    Location:
    California
    Thanks for your response Jim.
    But I think comparing the Kohler to the Yugo was pretty harsh ... lol.
    If Kohler was that bad I don't think they could have survived all these years in the industry.
    I believe that you can find good and bad with any manufacturer.. (With "Yugo" as an exception of course) ... :)
    Don't get me wrong, I am not knocking the Toto line. I have read good things about the Drake. But I'm sure one can
    dig up dirt on the Toto's as well.
  4. The Big Crapper

    The Big Crapper New Member

    Messages:
    11
    Location:
    California
    Here I found the Toto Drake II CST454CEFG which tests at 800 Grams of Solids per Flush.
    The top rated Kohlers advertise 1000 grams. I can't seem to find a toto that offers 1000.
    Toto's claim seems to be that this is because they have created a better balance where more
    water swishes around the bowl to keep it clean verses more flow to flush solids through the trapway.

    Anyone else have any feedback as to their recommendation for the best toilet?
  5. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    14,770
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    If you want a Kohler, then the Class five or six, or the Flushmate version.
    Any of them will be adequate.
    The Flushmate version is less pluggable. The class six and five have a tight bend at the exit that can plug sometimes. Not a big deal though. Don't' drop pens or pencils in the bowl.
    MaP testing is fine if you are flushing things wrapped in plastic that are 4" long.
    It does not test for anything else.
    Things it does not test for:
    Bowl rinse
    Parts, can you find them?
    Quality control
    Noise levels
    Streaking
    Force needed to push flush lever
    Percentage of returns

    Any bowl 500 grams or better is very good.
    Watersense will label bowls that get 350 grams on the test.

    I have customers that have both Kohler and Toto. It's hard to sell a Kohler to them. It's easy to sell them a second Toto,
    But either way, I'm sure a new toilet will be better then what you have been using.

    Things I look for:
    Bowl rinse, should be rinsed 360 degrees around the bowl. Afterall, you aren't flushing missiles wrapped in plastic.
    A trap that points the waste down the drain with sweeping bends. You want it to "leave" the bowl, not collect there at the end.
    Handles that can be pushed easily, when you have a large flapper to move, why make the handle so short?
    Noise levels, some are just to annoying for a master bathroom.
    Streaking
    Percentage of returns, If I have to return too many bowls, then I quit selling them. I no longer sell the dual flush Gerber for example. I run a business, and I don't have time to do things over and over again for the manufactures. They should get it right the first time.

    If you have large stools, and I only ask that because you are "The Big Crapper", then the Flushmate model may be best.
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2011
  6. The Big Crapper

    The Big Crapper New Member

    Messages:
    11
    Location:
    California
    Thanks Terry....
    I have to tell you that the more I read the more I see the Toto toilets shine.
    I think I am convinced to try the Toto. Now with this said, which model would you recommend?
    I want the best bang for the buck say to speak... I never tried the one piece versions, but if it was just a bit more than I would consider that too.


    Here are just a couple things I need...
    - Elongated model
    - ADA Comfort height (I believe 16.5 bowl height is considered comfort height)
    - white or almond color works for me
    - One that will work with a 11 inch rough in
  7. The Big Crapper

    The Big Crapper New Member

    Messages:
    11
    Location:
    California
    Last edited by a moderator: May 24, 2014
  8. cwooden82

    cwooden82 New Member

    Messages:
    10
    Location:
    Keizer, OR
    Excellent choice. I replaced a very old toilet (it had 4 floor bolts and used at least 3 gallons) with the elongated ADA Drake II with Sanigloss. With the old one it was a game of will it or won't it flush - the "floaters" would disappear only to pop back up necessitating another flush or two. The Drake is phenomenal - one quick "gulp" and it's gone. The dual cyclone flush keeps the bowl very clean, plus it's cool to watch. lol As for the map rating, if your poo comes out covered in slick plastic that leaves no mark then I guess it's important.
    I paid $326 for mine, worth every penny. One thing, I didn't care for the Toto seat, ended up buying a soft-close easy-off seat by Bemis at a big box store for $36, very happy with it also.
  9. The Big Crapper

    The Big Crapper New Member

    Messages:
    11
    Location:
    California
    Thanks cwooden...

    Can I ask why you didn't like the soft close Toto seat? Was your toilet the elongated versions?
    What is the difference between the Toto and the Bemis that you bought?

    Thanks..
  10. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    14,770
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    It becomes a personal preference.
    The original SS114 was dished pretty well, and for some that's a good thing.
    Some of the newer seats I'm seeing have less dish. But I have to tell you, many of my older customers when they move and buy more toilets, that was one of the selling points,

    "And I need the seats"

    At any rate, seats go on with two bolts. It's not a big issue there. And you won't really know what "you" like until you try it.
    Every "body" is different.
  11. Basement_Lurker

    Basement_Lurker One who lurks

    Messages:
    668
    Location:
    Victoria, BC
    Once you go Toto...you never go back :)
  12. The Big Crapper

    The Big Crapper New Member

    Messages:
    11
    Location:
    California
    It's to bad you can't test the toilets and seats first in the store before you buy them...haha.
    I'm not sure if you ever seen the movie "J a c k A s s", but they had a skit where one of the guys walked in to a plumbing store sat down on one of the toilets and took a dump in one of the toilets while reading a newspaper....lol. I thought that was hillarious.

  13. The Big Crapper

    The Big Crapper New Member

    Messages:
    11
    Location:
    California
    I attempted to order my CST454CDEF(G) drake II toilet today. Unfortunately got another monkey wrench thrown into my situation. My closet flange is 11 inch rough. My inital spec sheet said the toilet had 1-1/4 clearance from bowl to wall with 12 inch, so I thought it would work leaving 1/4 space. Apparantly though the spec sheet that is now showing on Toto's site for this toilet only shows 13/16 space between wall - tank at 12 inch rough. This will not work for me. The plumber shop rep said he would call Toto tomorrow morning and double check those specs to see which is correct. if it is 13/16 then I am hosed with this toilet. The rep said he would then look into some other options to see if Toto has a comparable toilet that will fit a 11inch rough flange. Never can be easy...:(
    M
  14. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    14,770
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    The other Drakes work at 10-7/8"
    Are you measuring from the floor mold or the wall?
  15. The Big Crapper

    The Big Crapper New Member

    Messages:
    11
    Location:
    California
    I'm measuring from the wall to where the toilet bolt goes on the closet flange (in other words the middle of the slot).

    How many new features would I lose with the standard Drakes vs the Drakes II? I assume they have the old flush technology and no sanagloss.

  16. The Big Crapper

    The Big Crapper New Member

    Messages:
    11
    Location:
    California
    Best Toilet for 2011

    Ok I now have new information regarding my 11 inch rough in delema.
    It seems Toto has (3) options for a 11 inch rough...

    1. Use the standard Drake (as mentioned here already).
    This sucks though cause you are stripped of all the new features and technologies.

    2. Use the Toto Vestin II EST474CEFG
    The good thing here is this has all the same features as the Drake II
    The bad thing is it is skirted (well that is if you don't like skirted like me).
    The other bad thing you have to buy a 50.00 adapter. They make this to fit a standard 12,
    but offers an adapter for 50.00 that will adopt their unifit technology to work on a 10 or 14 rough in.

    3. Locate a plumber to update closet flange to a standard 12 inch rough.
    I thought I could probably do it as well. My floor is exposing pipes at this point. I have an old cast iron pipe that has at least a foot horizontal run and then bends up to the floor with flange. My thought is to cut the end of the horizontal cast iron pipe, add rubber boot, extend with ABS the extra inch, add the 90, and run straight abs up through floor. I will then top with closet flange and screw to floor. But first I will find out how much plumber will charge to do this. Why can't things be easy.
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2011
  17. The Big Crapper

    The Big Crapper New Member

    Messages:
    11
    Location:
    California
    Ok new update..

    I went with option 3 and got a plumber to update closet flange to 12 inch rough.
    I then picked up the drake II from my local plumbing supply.
    Now all I need to do is finish installing my subfloor, vinyl and new toilet... wahooooooo!
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