Bathroom Remodel Toilet Rough In Question

Discussion in 'Toilet Forum discussions' started by lordmoosh, Dec 14, 2011.

  1. lordmoosh

    lordmoosh New Member

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    115
    Location:
    USA
    Hello all,

    I have seen various posts about rough ins less than 12" but I am not positive what my best option is. I am remodeling a bathroom and moving a toilet. There are two 2x8 joists underneath where the toilet flange would go in order to be 12" from the wall at the center of the flange. I am planning to put a 3" flange by the way and put a toto ultramax II if it will fit. If I put the flange behind the joists closer to the wall, I will have only 10" from the wall to the center of the flange. If I put the flange in front of the joists it will be 16" from the wall to the center of the flange. There is no way I can do the 16" away from the wall because the bathroom is not large. From what I have read I have three options:

    1) Have a 10" rough in and get a special sized toilet to work in the bathroom
    2) Use an offset flange (which I have seen posts on this forum discouraging) in an attempt to get closer to 12".
    3) Cut/head off the joists.

    I would like to avoid 3). What do you guys suggest? Thank you.
  2. Gary Swart

    Gary Swart In the Trades

    Messages:
    7,347
    Location:
    Yakima WA
    There are 2 possibilities. Set the flange at either 10" (preferred) or 16". Then select one the Toto models that use the Unifit adapter. These adapter come in 3 sizes. 10", 12", and 14". The toilet is the same for any of these adapters. By selecting the 10" rough in and 10" adapter, your toilet will set exactly where it should. The 16" rough-in and 14" adapter would also work, but would mean the toilet would set out from the back wall by an extra 2". These toilet models come standard with the 12" adapter, but the 10" and 14" cost an additional $50 and no credit for the 12". The advantage of using the adapter is more choices of models that is available with a 10" toilet. These adapters are unique to Toto, no other manufacturer has them. They do not work on toilets that are not designed for them. Any of the Toto models using the Unifit adapter is an excellent performer, so it is a matter of you choice of style. Just go to the "Toilet Review" box at the top of this page, then the "Shopping" link to see all Toto models.

    [​IMG]
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 24, 2011
  3. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    21,995
    Location:
    New England
    I think I'd go for the 10" rough-in. Now, there are at least some offset flanges that are reasonable. You want to avoid those that have what amounts to a shelf or cup that directs waste to the offset. One that would be acceptable has what's closer to a 45-degree (or so, not sure of the exact angle) built-in directly under the opening. Another big difference is the former's opening isn't round, and would need a couple of wax rings pieced together to seal, and then it is somewhat tenuous. The later has a standard round opening and uses a normal wax ring. Now, those are maybe less likely to fit, but at least they don't clog and are easier to get a decent seal. If you could make one fit, it would give you a lot more options for a standard 12" rough-in.
  4. lordmoosh

    lordmoosh New Member

    Messages:
    115
    Location:
    USA
    Thanks for the quick responses. I was leaning towards the 10" rough in as well. I saw some threads recommending the Toto unifit toilets. I also saw that there is a Toto Drake II that has a 10" rough in that seems somewhat reasonably priced. I noticed that the Toto Drake II is ranked near the top of Terry's toilet chart so that is a bonus. Anyone have any experience or thoughts on the Drake II with 10" rough in? Should the performance be the same as a regular Drake II? My favorite toilet is the Ultramax but apparently it does not support the unifit adapter. The closest thing I have seen to the Ultramax is the Carlyle. Any thoughts on the Drake II 10" vs the Carlyle II Unifit? I want an elongated white toilet with a soft close lid. I understand I will need to purchase a soft close lid separately for the Drake II. Thank you all.
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 15, 2011
  5. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,000
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    The CST454CEFG Drake II needs 11-1/2" on the rough in.

    The CST744 Drake can use 10-7/8" on the rough-in.
    You can get a CST744EF.10 or CST744SF.10 that works at 9-1/4"

    If you rough at 10", you will be looking at the CST744*F.10 bowls or,
    Any of the Unifit models, Vespin, Carlyle, Soiree, Guinevere and a few more that can use a 10" Unifit.

    I would not install an offset flange.
    With the new bowls, there is way too much water going through all at once.

    [​IMG]
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2011
  6. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    21,995
    Location:
    New England
    The II series washes the bowl better and has Sanaglos standard (I think), which makes the bowl cleaner, too. The Carlyle is essentially a skirted Drake...they're both good.
  7. lordmoosh

    lordmoosh New Member

    Messages:
    115
    Location:
    USA
    I looked at the Carlyle II installation guide and it lists two part numbers for the 10" unifit trapway:
    TSU01W.10R / TSU03W.10

    Does anyone know the difference between the two?
  8. lordmoosh

    lordmoosh New Member

    Messages:
    115
    Location:
    USA
    I think I found the answer. According to Terry in this thread only the bolts are different.... so I'll just get whichever one is cheaper and use the bolts that come with the toilet.
    http://www.terrylove.com/forums/sho...t-compatability-question&highlight=TSU01W.10R
  9. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

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    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    quote; Use an offset flange (which I have seen posts on this forum discouraging) in an attempt to get closer to 12".

    There is NO offset flange which would be acceptable to use on a 3" riser, and the ones that WILL work on a 4" riser would require deeper joists than you have.
  10. lordmoosh

    lordmoosh New Member

    Messages:
    115
    Location:
    USA
    Yes I've decided to just go with a 10" rough-in as the best option and am leaning towards the Toto Vespin II with a 10" unifit trapway. I did like the Carlyle II but it costs over $100 more than the Vespin II with the only difference that I saw going from 2-piece to 1-piece. If I were only replacing 1 toilet I could eat it but I have to replace 3 toilets total ($$$). I like the Vespin II over the Eco drake 10" rough-in toilet because eco drake lacks sanagloss and double cyclone features.
  11. Gary Swart

    Gary Swart In the Trades

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    Location:
    Yakima WA
    Nice thing about going with a Toto is you can't really go wrong no may which one you choose. They are all excellent performers.
  12. lordmoosh

    lordmoosh New Member

    Messages:
    115
    Location:
    USA
    Hello all. A buddy and I removed the cast iron drain and setup a new 3" pipe to the new location. The center of the drain is approximately 9.5" away from the wall. Is this enough space for a unifit 10" Toto Carlyle? (yes I changed my mind again lol) What is the minimum distance for the Carlyle using a 10" unifit from the wall?
  13. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    21,995
    Location:
    New England
    The thing normally has 0.75" behind it, so you should still have 0.25 with a flange roughin 0.5" short (not counting the fudge factor which could increase the gap slightly).
  14. lordmoosh

    lordmoosh New Member

    Messages:
    115
    Location:
    USA
    I'm looking at the Carlyle II spec sheet and on the last page where it shows the diagram of the toilets it looks like it is suggesting to put the supply valve 8" away from the center of the drain and be 6" tall. Am I interpreting the spec sheet correctly? How many inches away from the wall should the supply valve be?
  15. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,000
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    If the supply is in the wall,

    8" to the left of center would work fine.
    So does 6" to the left of center on the Carlyle II.

    If the supply is coming from the floor, then more like 8"
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2011
  16. lordmoosh

    lordmoosh New Member

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    115
    Location:
    USA
    Thanks. Is there a standard/plumbing code distance or is it different for each toilet?
  17. lordmoosh

    lordmoosh New Member

    Messages:
    115
    Location:
    USA
    The Carlyle II came in today so I put it down to see how things look without installing it. 6" from the center of the drain would have been under the rim of the toilet. 8" was a little too close for comfort. I did 9" off center of drain and 3" away from the wall. I think that will work well for this model toilet.
  18. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,000
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    Your're installing the water supply on the floor?
  19. lordmoosh

    lordmoosh New Member

    Messages:
    115
    Location:
    USA
    Yes that is how it was before. I thought about putting the pipe in the wall but the wall behind the toilet is on top of three 2x8's.
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