Basement bathroom location and waste lines

Discussion in 'Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice' started by rsiros, Oct 26, 2013.

  1. rsiros

    rsiros New Member

    Messages:
    9
    Location:
    New York
    I'm looking to install a basic basement shower, toilet, and sink in what used to be a coal cellar. It's a block 8'x9' room off of the main basement at the front of the house. Ceiling is 6'8". It's under a poured slab front porch (ceiling of coal cellar is bottom of slab, so the whole room is concrete- block walls and a poured ceiling and floor). There's an old coal chute that is just above grade, and it's bricked up. The main waste stack from the upstairs bathroom is right outside the coal cellar (in the basement), and that runs under the coal cellar and out to the street. There is a floor clean-out in the coal cellar and it drops vertically about 3-4 feet before exiting to the street. The clean-out is cast iron.
    Here's what I'd like to do: break up the floor and tie into the vertical floor clean-out to drain the new shower, toilet, and sink. I would keep it as a floor level clean-out. Any potential problems with this situation? I was told that the stack from the upstairs bathroom, which is about 8 feet away from the floor clean-out, would serve to vent the new bathroom. Can that be done? Any thoughts and opinions are appreciated.
  2. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,438
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    No. The bathroom above is not a vent for the downstairs.
    You will need to provide proper venting for the bathroom in the basement, apart from the upstairs plumbing.
    You may be able to do this with an AAV that is accessible for replacement and is open to air. Either exposed or with a grill that allows air access.

    If you open up the floor, you may be able to wye off the horizontal there.
  3. rsiros

    rsiros New Member

    Messages:
    9
    Location:
    New York
    Thank you for the information. So, if I tied into the vertical clean-out with my new horizontal waste lines, where in the line should i put the AAV? Would one AAV serve to vent the 3 new lines?
  4. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,438
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2013
  5. rsiros

    rsiros New Member

    Messages:
    9
    Location:
    New York
    Thank you for the information... the diagrams are very helpful. My layout will be very similar to the "3/4 bathroom" diagram. So I'll be able to set it up that way and use an AAV on the red dry vent part extending up from the lav?
  6. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,438
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    Yes, on the red vemt over the lav.

    The drawing doesn't show it, but those are combo's or wye fittings horizontal on the ground.
  7. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    27,286
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    First you have to determine what kind of fitting the cleanout goes in to. If it is a sanitary tee, or a "2 way cleanout fitting" you won't be able to use it.
  8. rsiros

    rsiros New Member

    Messages:
    9
    Location:
    New York
    I'm not sure, but when you look down the clean-out you can see water flowing past. The clean-out is at the end of the line. What other types of fitting could that be, and why couldn't it be used?
  9. rsiros

    rsiros New Member

    Messages:
    9
    Location:
    New York
    After looking those fittings up, I don't believe it's either. I think it's just a regular tee. It looks as though both of those that you listed would not allow one to see water flowing.
  10. rsiros

    rsiros New Member

    Messages:
    9
    Location:
    New York
    One more question about tying into that vertical cleanout... I was going to dig out around the cleanout and figure out my spacing and slope for the 3 other lines and then find the best point to cut in and start building off the cleanout. I was going to transition with a no hub coupling and then add a PVC wye to start going horizontal. Thoughts?
  11. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    27,286
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    If you can see water flowing, it should be either of the 'illegal/improper" fittings because the proper ones do not have a "straight line of vision" so the water is not visible. A "regular" tee IS a sanitary tee, but there are also "improvised cleanout fittings", i.e., a hole in the side of the pipe with a riser cemented to it, which would also be unusable for your plans.
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2013
  12. rsiros

    rsiros New Member

    Messages:
    9
    Location:
    New York
    Thank you, but I'm not quite understanding. When I look down the cleanout, it drops straight down 3-4 feet. At the bottom, it ties into the horizontal waste line that runs to the street. The tee at the bottom of the cleanout does not have any directional curves... I was calling it a "regular tee" meaning straight sided, or I guess it's just called a tee. Where does that leave me with being able to tie into the vertical cleanout? Sorry for being thick headed! Your help is greatly appreciated.
  13. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    27,286
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    That type of connection would usually be just a hole in the pipe with the riser sticking into it. Finding a "4 inch regular" tee, which by definition would be a "vent tee" would normally be an impossible task unless it was special ordered. In any case, you are in for a complicated job, because you will have to remove whatever that fitting is and insert a combo and new cleanout.
  14. rsiros

    rsiros New Member

    Messages:
    9
    Location:
    New York
    Crap. Thanks for the heads up. I'm going to have to re-think this tie in location. Out of curiosity, what would be the risks in using it as is?
  15. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    27,286
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    When you flush the toilet, the stuff is going to go "plop" into the pipe, and lose it momentum. then the water is going to flow away leaving the other "stuff" to wait until a toilet is flushed somewhere else to try to wash it away, hopefully before it solidifies and becomes an obstruction to the other toilets. At least when it happens, you will have a cleanout opening to reach down and break it up.

    [​IMG]
    Wye with 45 or combo should be used.
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 28, 2013
  16. rsiros

    rsiros New Member

    Messages:
    9
    Location:
    New York
    I'm now looking at possibly tying to a horizontal section before the clean out. I sure don't want to do this project more than once. Thanks for your input.
  17. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    27,286
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    Whether you install a new location, or replace this one, put a cleanout on top of it. Your plumber will love you for doing it, because your existing cleanout can be very frustrating, and time consuming, to get the snake to turn in the correct direction, especially when it is full of water as it would be at that time.
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