Baffled! Replacing existing same toilet does not fit!!

Users who are viewing this thread

CherylB

New Member
Messages
5
Reaction score
0
Points
1
Location
Ontario
Hello,

My bf and I are baffled. We are replacing an old floor and he removed the existing toilet with ease. Came off in 5 min. There was a rubber gasket that we replaced with a wax ring. The left bolt in the flange have been moved to the furthest position it could be away from the wall with the right bolt parallel. However when we go to replace the EXACT SAME toilet, it is now too close to the wall and the tank does not go in with ease or sit flush, there is no room, it hits the wall. How is this possible??? The same toilet was on for years with no leaks or issues, there was no offset flange. We were able to shimmy the tank back on (by tilting it and then forcing it, bad idea) but my bf said that it came off with ease so it should go on too....and when we shimmied it on he couldnt tighten bolts properly which resulted in water leaking when we test flushed. The flange is bolted firmly underground so that did not move! We put the tank on facing properly with flush valve in the front. WHAT ARE WE MISSING?? We've asked around and everyone seems baffled. I'm attaching a pic. The bolts are 10" away from wall. Please any advice or help is appreciated.

Cheryl
 

Attachments

  • 20170214_102932.jpg
    20170214_102932.jpg
    49.1 KB · Views: 834

Terry

The Plumbing Wizard
Staff member
Messages
29,946
Reaction score
3,460
Points
113
Location
Bothell, Washington
Website
terrylove.com
They do make 10" rough toilets. Most of those will install at a minimum of 9-1/4" from the wall.

A standard 12" rough toilet, depending on the year, may need the full 12" or may get by with 11".
If the flange is lower than the floor, it often needs a thick wax, or two standard rings stacked. If the bowl is moved around a lot during install, that could disturb the contact and also cause leaking.

cst744ef.10_rough.jpg


This TOTO CST744SF.10 will install at 9-1/4" from the wall.

If you have 11" from the wall to center, you can get with with the CST743S
 
Last edited:

Reach4

Well-Known Member
Messages
38,749
Reaction score
4,400
Points
113
Location
IL
Your picture shows the bolts 10 inches away from the baseboard, not the wall. Is the wall the limiting factor, or is the wall? Remeasure from the wall.

Because of the shimmying, the wax probably got messed up. You could go to a SaniSeal or other waxless seal.

But really, do you have an attachment to that old toilet? If you have used a plunger in the last few years, you could benefit from a new toilet. They work better now.

Some toilets for nominal 12 inch from the wall rough in have more room than others.
 

CherylB

New Member
Messages
5
Reaction score
0
Points
1
Location
Ontario
Thank you for the replies. But attaching the toilet to the floor is no issue, its putting the tank on afterwards. Once the toilet is bolted to the floor the tank just has no room to attach to the toilet without tilting the tank which just does not seem correct but also because it came straight off too. The tank is hitting the wall once we try to attach it to the toilet but how was it installed before? I really don't want to have to buy a new toilet when this one is hardly used (in a guest bathroom) and is efficient.
 

Reach4

Well-Known Member
Messages
38,749
Reaction score
4,400
Points
113
Location
IL
The left bolt in the flange have been moved to the furthest position it could be away from the wall with the right bolt parallel.
If you want to keep that toilet, I would extend the left slot with drill and file.

Alternatively, put a repair ring above the flange, and the repair ring will hold the closet bolts.
 

WJcandee

Wise One
Messages
3,182
Reaction score
170
Points
63
Location
New York, NY
Pull the toilet. Put the tank back on. Then mount the toilet. It's gonna be a little heavier, but maybe that's how it got in in the first place. If you have moved the closet bolts, that might affect it, but it sounds like you haven't. Normally, you can cheat the toilet forward a little bit by moving the bolts forward a bit, depending on how the hole is in the porcelain of your toilet base. I would use the SaniSeal, because this may require trial and error, and you can only smush the thing down on wax one time without having to replace it. Move the toilet at all after smushing, and it may break the seal when you use wax; the SaniSeal should tolerate a little movement and of course if you pull it you can just put it back. If you need two saniseals because the flange is below the floor, you can stack them no problem.

And you measure the toilet "rough-in" from the wall, not the floor molding. So it's the distance from the finished wall to the center of the closet flange.
 

Reach4

Well-Known Member
Messages
38,749
Reaction score
4,400
Points
113
Location
IL
Normally, you can cheat the toilet forward a little bit by moving the bolts forward a bit
The problem is that the flange ring was not squared up before it was screwed down. The left bolt is up against the end of the slot.
img_6.jpg
 

CherylB

New Member
Messages
5
Reaction score
0
Points
1
Location
Ontario
Thank you again for all the replies. If we were to drill and file and move the bolts forward will there still be a seal? SaniSeal is a good idea we already went through one wax ring because we thought it was as easy to put back as it was to come off. We are thinking about trying to put it on with tank attached.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Reach4

Well-Known Member
Messages
38,749
Reaction score
4,400
Points
113
Location
IL
Thank you again for all the replies. If we were to drill and file and move the bolts forward will there still be a seal?
Yes, if you don't overdo it. I think if you limited the bolt movement to say 3/8 inch or less, you would be fine. Maybe more would be OK, but you probably only need a quarter inch anyway.

How much lower is the top of the blue flange than the floor surface?
 

CherylB

New Member
Messages
5
Reaction score
0
Points
1
Location
Ontario
Thank you for replying. We are going to do what you're suggesting as we attached it with tank and toilet together and found the one bolt to be slightly on an angle and if we drill and file a bit my bf thinks it will straighten. However I'm still very confused as to how the previous owners got the toilet on to begin with?? The toilet sat flush with no leaks and everything as is so how is that possible?

The flange is pretty much at level with the floor.
 

Jadnashua

Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx
Messages
32,771
Reaction score
1,191
Points
113
Location
New England
There could be a little slop when attaching the tank, but not much. Plus, if the angle between the floor and the wall is not exactly square, you might need to have the tank lean a little bit. The holes in the toilet that attach it to the flange also have a slight amount of movement that might gain you a little bit, too.
 

Reach4

Well-Known Member
Messages
38,749
Reaction score
4,400
Points
113
Location
IL
However I'm still very confused as to how the previous owners got the toilet on to begin with??
I don't know. Are those the same closet bolts they used or did you get new ones?;)
IMG_7.png
 

WJcandee

Wise One
Messages
3,182
Reaction score
170
Points
63
Location
New York, NY
Did the new floor raise or lower the floor? If the wall isn't straight and plumb (which is common), then the angle and position of the wall may be different at the height at which the tank now sits. If it was "flush" with the wall (i.e. against it) before, that's not typical, and the previous owner may have just hit the sweet spot for making that toilet squeeze in there. (Usually, there's a bit of a gap between the wall and the back of the toilet tank. On Totos, it can be up to 1.5 inches and is usually no less than 3/4".) In that confined space, it's gonna be easier to put in with the tank on than to install the tank with little or no room. Make sure that tank is completely-vertical when you install it, or even leaning a bit forward. The tank doesn't automatically go on perfectly-true; how you do it makes a difference. (First time I tried to put the tank on a toilet, it took me about three tries to get it straight and plumb, to the amusement of others. :) )
 

CherylB

New Member
Messages
5
Reaction score
0
Points
1
Location
Ontario
Again, thank you all for reading and replying, glad I found this forum!

We got new closet bolts but verified they were the exact same size (would that make a difference??). The new floor raises the existing floor and I agree the position of the wall may be different now that it is slightly higher.

We are going to replace it by drilling and filing the one slot for the bolt a little and putting it on with the tank (as per all your suggestions). I will also take your suggestion making sure it is completely vertical or leaning a bit forward.

We are going to use a wax seal that we already purchased. We are thinking of putting it on the flange versus the toilet (thoughts?). If it leaks after that we will use a sani seal.

Thank you again everyone, I much appreciate it!!
 

Reach4

Well-Known Member
Messages
38,749
Reaction score
4,400
Points
113
Location
IL
We are going to use a wax seal that we already purchased. We are thinking of putting it on the flange versus the toilet (thoughts?).
That is the right way.
Fit the toilet without wax initially. Settle on where the shims will be. Shims in the back portion will tend to rotate the tank away from the wall. You can use a level if you like; most don't, but extra info won't hurt. Remove the toilet, leaving the shims in place. You can cut the shims that stick out now or after the toilet is in place. A little tape can hold the shim in place if moving is a problem. Then place the wax ring on the flange, and consider forming it a bit with your gloved hands if the fit does not look ideal. The reason for having the shims there first is to not have to lift the toilet after you have squished the wax.

Set the toilet over the bolts and shims and apply body weight to seat it. Then put on the washers and nuts. You then cut or break off the excess bolt length.

See https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/help-rocking-toto-aquia.22416/#post-148855 for shim info.
 

Jadnashua

Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx
Messages
32,771
Reaction score
1,191
Points
113
Location
New England
Put a framing square up against the floor and wall behind the toilet. Let us know. If the wall slopes in a bit, raising the floor will mean less room between the wall at the top of the toilet, so the bottom would have to move forward slightly to maintain the same gap.

One shower that I built ran into a significant problem with the plaster walls...they were definitely thicker at the bottom than at their top, so had a slope to them.
 
Top
Hey, wait a minute.

This is awkward, but...

It looks like you're using an ad blocker. We get it, but (1) terrylove.com can't live without ads, and (2) ad blockers can cause issues with videos and comments. If you'd like to support the site, please allow ads.

If any particular ad is your REASON for blocking ads, please let us know. We might be able to do something about it. Thanks.
I've Disabled AdBlock    No Thanks