Back to back toilets; differential height between the two rooms

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DeanK

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First post for a complicated problem. I have a '60s house with copper waste lines. The master en-suite was originally was plumbed with toilet and bidet against the wall. Complicating matters--the master en suite actually extends into the next section of the house (which is two steps down) so it could be level with the master bedroom.

The waste line from the toilet and bidet had to make a 90 deg turn and come back towards the outside wall and the vent stack is connected with a wye where it makes the turn. Either because of back wash or not enough drop on the vent line, it has corroded on the bottom and leaked waste into the crawl. So it has been out of service while I have worked on other things.

(I've attached a drawing and pictures of what I have because it is a bit of a nightmare and we simply can't afford the services of the plumber that I have worked with before, but for now while I'm doing other stuff, I wanted to start thinking about how to finish this $#@%^^& renovation.)

First order of business--repair the soil line (and I have to replace the section, since I had to redo the subfloor in the bath and already cut out the original soldered in toilet flange). So I already imagined cutting out the section of copper soil line, cutting the bottom of the vent where it has corroded and adding an appropriate replacement abs section with Ferncos and a new toilet flange.

Then I started thinking--if I am going to repair the soil line, can I install back to back toilets on the common wall? The adjacent room (now a furnace room) is at the lower level and would make an ideal powder room. The common wall between them would be framed up to enclose the existing vents; furnace relocated to the crawl (since it also needs redoing).

So I imagine if the soil line were relocated at a lower level to accommodate a new powder room toilet (spaced in about the same place as where the old bidet was in the master), it would mean that the master toilet would have to have a straight drop from toilet flange to soil line.

First question--can you have a straight drop from the toilet before connecting to the soil line and how would you make that connection--wye or?

Second question--is there a better way to redo the crazy over-under connection between the soil line and main--especially if I am adding a second toilet?

Third question--if I change the height of the soil line to allow for a second toilet, can there be jogs in the vent, since I can't see a way up other than how it is routed now, since the steel sits underneath that wall section.
 

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DeanK

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So to provide more information, I've posted a series of pictures starting with the leak at the bottom of the stack vent. Because of the height difference, the soil line makes a 90 degree turn horizontally (this is where the damaged vent is); then comes back over top of the main soil and waste; then does a 90 deg down and comes into the main line with the wye. At the end of that line you can see the sink waste and shower waste connections.

(The plywood layer just above the shiny foam insulation is the subfloor of the adjacent furnace room that I would like to convert to a powder room.)
 

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DeanK

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Just to finish the sequence. A couple of comments:

-picture 6 is the end of the main soil/waste where the shower and sink from the master bath connect. Sink has its own vent in outside wall.
-picture 7 shows the vent for the toilet hookup, and picture 8 shows the toilet vent hitting the main vent on the furnace room side of the wall.

If you can believe it, that main line makes a 9o degree turn probably 6' out of frame, passing under the furnace room that I want to convert before it turns down the long side of the house (easily 60') before exiting to the septic.
 

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DeanK

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No response, so I will muse a little.

What if I made the existing vent more like a main stack?

Cut the main waste about where it disappears from view; connect new ABS with Fernco.

Connect a new vertical to the main waste with a wye--about where the cleanout is in the line now. (I could relocate upper part of vent if necessary so that it is directly over the main waste as it leaves the photographed area--or there may be enough movement in the line.)

Then Master toilet hits stack at about the same level as now using medium 90 (vent more or less as is but redone in ABS if necessary); new toilet in proposed powder the same except lower down (don't know if this would need a vent?). Master sink and shower could connect as they are to new ABS--or maybe to the stack as well. Cleanout at end of new main waste.

Sink in new powder would connect to same main vertical; high point for its vent would be above sink in master bath.

A couple of TBD's
--I have no idea as to the length of 2 Ts (height to stack them) into a wye, so don't know if I can fit in;
--I think would have to "jog" the top of "stack" to vent as it does now where it clears the wall plate in the master bath.
 

DeanK

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I thought I would bump this now that I am back on the project.

I have a straight forward question---

Did they originally vent the toilet because the bidet used to sit between it and the rest of the drain (and main vent)?

Without the bidet there, do I need to keep the separate vent for the toilet if I just replace the toilet flange in its existing position?

I'm in New York state, if that makes a code difference.

(In picture 2 above you can see where the bidet hookup has been capped and the trimmed off toilet flange was to the right. In picture 8 you can see the main vent and the separate vent from the toilet hitting about half way up on the furnace room side of the bathroom...)
 
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