Are Totos worth it?

[newhomeownerlearningcurve]

I have been to a Toto and Kohler showroom, talked to many people and still can't decide which toilet to get! Why is this such a hard decision!?

I am a new homeowner and need to replace all 4 toilets in my home.
My main necessities are:
-powerful flush (I have low water pressure- I'm on a hill- and I have two toddlers so random small things might make there way into the toilet unnoticed!)
-easy to clean
-universal height
-elongated bowl
-water sense
-soft close lid to protect little fingers

I know all of my choices: Toto Eco Drake, Toto Drake II, Toto Ultramax and Kohler Cimarron hit all of the above. But I can't decide which is best for me or really the difference between them all besides the obvious, and I'm wondering if my decision is just going to come down to aesthetic and price since they are all great options.

A few questions:
1. The Toto Drake gets such amazing reviews. Is the Eco Drake just as good?
2. Is the only difference between the Drake II and the Drake the new universal height and the tornado flush?
3. Is there a difference between the Ultramax and the Ultramax II? I love that it is one piece.
4. I will have to purchase Toto toilets online instead of from a showroom in order to save money. Is that a reliable way to purchase them? Are there online retailers I should avoid, look into?
5. The Kohler Cimarron is supposed to be great, but I dislike how the seat attaches to the bowl as I find it flimsy.
6. I have a bathroom in our basement with an above ground pump. Will any of the above toilets be ok with that or should I avoid one with too powerful a flush?

We have Kohler's now and I can't stand them- mainly because they are all falling apart, but they haven't been replaced in 15 years so I can't really use that as a judgement call against the brand. I am looking to spend no more than approximately $400/toilet.

Thank you for your help! I just want to make sure if I'm spending more for the Toto brand that they are worth it and will last, despite some mixed reviews. I know Kohler is less expensive to purchase and fix, and gets nothing but great reviews.

Thank you again!

 

[Smooky]

No! I love plunging. I keep a nice rubber plunger next to my Kohler toilets. I have to say that I have become a toilet plunging expert.
I use the type rubber plunger with a yellow handle in the video below. I scraped off the yellow paint and stained the handles. They look great setting next to my Kohler toilets. After the toilet is unclogged I always thoroughly wash the plunger, inside and out so it is ready for the next time I use my Kohler toilet.

 

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[Cacher_Chick]

Pretty much any indoor toilet is ok compared to going to an outhouse when it it below zero outside.

 

[hj]

The power for the flush comes from the water IN the tank, NOT your building's water pressure. I have only installed a handful of Totos since they came on the market, so I am not one to recommend them. I have others that I prefer, although you might not have access to them. Smooky, the plunger in the bucket is NOT the one with a yellow handle.

 

[Smooky]

You are right HJ, the one in the bucket has a black plastic handle. I'm referring to the other plunger. I normally do not use the plastic accordion style plunger. I use a Cobra heavy-duty force cup plunger with a 21" wood handle.

 

[Jadnashua]

Kohler tends to design things their own way. That does not make them better, but I feel, it makes THEM feel better! As a result, sometimes finding parts for one of their products can be a major pain, and expensive. Toto, for the most part, uses standard, off-the-shelf parts that are readily available. Kohler over the years has had some good performers, and some dogs, and they change at their whim...new does not always mean better.

The 'II' designation on a Toto means the cyclone flush and their special glaze are incorporated into the design. What they used to call CEFIONTECT is still optional on some models without the II designation. If you shop around, you should never have to pay anywhere near list price for a Toto, so don't let the initial list price scare you without doing some homework.

 

[Terry]

We have sold thousands of the TOTO toilets, many Kohler, American Standard, Gerber and others. All TOTO have been consistent. In the last five years, most brands have gotten better. It's less of a worry now then it was ten years ago. I like the trapways on the TOTO a lot. The Cimarron is working well, though the TOTO I give a slight edge to. Years ago, the MaP ratings on toilets were pretty much 150 grams to 500 grams. There has been a lot of improvements over the years. HJ likes the washdown bowls, similar to the Caroma bowls. I believe he installs Vitra. There are reasons we don't sell many like that. Most having to do with bowl rinse and splashing.

 

[newhomeownerlearningcurve]

We have sold thousands of the TOTO toilets, many Kohler, American Standard, Gerber and others. All TOTO have been consistent. In the last five years, most brands have gotten better. It's less of a worry now then it was ten years ago. I like the trapways on the TOTO a lot. The Cimarron is working well, though the TOTO I give a slight edge to. Years ago, the MaP ratings on toilets were pretty much 150 grams to 500 grams. There has been a lot of improvements over the years. HJ likes the washdown bowls, similar to the Caroma bowls. I believe he installs Vortens. There are reasons we don't sell many like that. Most having to do with bowl rinse and splashing.

Thank you Terry! So we will go with TOTO, but would you mind just answering a few questions for me so I can decide which model?:
1. The Toto Drake gets such amazing reviews. Is the Eco Drake just as good?
2. Is there a difference between the Ultramax and the Ultramax II? I love that it is one piece.
3. I will have to purchase Toto toilets online instead of from a showroom in order to save money. Is that a reliable way to purchase them? Are there online retailers I should avoid, look into?
4. I have a bathroom in our basement with an above ground pump. Will any of the TOTO toilets be ok with that or should I avoid one with too powerful a flush?

THANK YOU!

 

[newhomeownerlearningcurve]

"Toto, for the most part, uses standard, off-the-shelf parts that are readily available."

Interesting! I thought it was the other way around. That Kohler had more off-the-shelf availability than TOTO. Thank you for clarifying that for me!

 

[Standardairconditioner]

We have Kohler's now and I can't stand them- mainly because they are all falling apart, but they haven't been replaced in 15 years

I'm curious as to how they are "all falling apart", unless there was trauma to the lid, tank, and bowl.

Toilet seat and lid, the flush handle, that assembly going from the handle to flapper, tank bolts, and all the guts of a toilet are expected to be replaced from normal service and use, regardless of manufacturer. Vintage toilets will have brass ballcock fill valves, those will last 50 yrs, needing just diaphragm parts swapped when necessary.

A toilet that is only 15 yrs old can be easily cleaned and polished. It's amazing how easily a toilet can be cleaned when it is removed, put on your driveway, and pressure washer washed with commercial HVAC soap.

A lot of the features you are looking for, especially the "powerful flush", can come from a large capacity toilet from pre-2000s, when 3gpf was norm, which may apply to your existing toilets. The "soft close lid to protect little fingers" is less related with a toilet brand, as that comes from a toilet seat and lid you can purchase for any toilet.

If you're expecting "reviews" to give satisfaction, there are also many ways any toilet can be a turn off. Asthetics, where the handle is placed, how the handle operates, the sound it makes flushing, the sound it makes refilling, whether skid marks are left behind, how piss dribbles down the outside of the bowl into floor bolts, any reason can turn into a peeve and a piss-off.