Apartment ceiling radiator wont' heat?

Discussion in 'Boiler Forum' started by Krazecon, Feb 5, 2009.

  1. Krazecon

    Krazecon New Member

    Messages:
    8
    have a apartment complex that has a huge boiler on outside and runs hotwater through the plumbing lines for heat. I'm guessing that the water goes through radiator(in my ceiling) then the blower forces the heat through the ducts, after a while the water recirculates to bring in new hot water?. Well there is no heat, I got the thermostat to work and now the blower works but there is no heat. there are 2 pipes both with shutoffs and they feel warm(update got them to get really hot), not hot. When I turn on the thermostat and blower kicks on one pipe is hot(see pics) and one gets cold(see pics). I dont' feel no heat, am I being impatient and should just leave the blower on and wait for it to circulate? I was told by someone that if one of the pipes is cold that is normal? If I shut off the blower the pipe gets hot again, but no heat, if there is heat its not much(I dont' know how hot these things are supposed to get). It has 2 shutoffs and both shutoffs when turned on circulates water through the lower bleeder valve at the same flow rate so I know it isn't clogged, yes it was dirty/rusted water alot of debris but now the water is clear. The whole radiator looks rusted,, and assume that normal considering the age, everyone else has heat and was wondering what I can do to troubleshoot it. These electric outragious.
    I know they have bleeder valves and could be caused by air in system. I bled the lower one, but the top one is damaged, I guess the guy before me messed it up but chipped the tooth off. I'm not sure how to get it off so I can replace it, maybe drill it out and use screw extractor. But since they both run water out the lower one would i really necessary have to bleed that top one couldnt' I just bleed it through the bottom? The radiator and pipes are in ceiling and I am a handyman by trade so I know my way around plumbing and such just never dealt with this type of thing(boilers/radiators). If I didn't have to take down the ceiling that woudl be great as the access panel sucks, but I think i'm going to have to take down the ceiling just to get a good look at it. Why they limited decent access is beyond me. One last thing would the condo association be responsible for the radiator? or is that a homeowner thing? I live in Olney Maryland, Thanks for all who reply with help
    guy before me had to replace the blower and the handymen here are not..hmm whats the word/words? dont' want to say incompetent because i'm sure they could fix it, but unwilling I guess. The guy I bought it from told me that the maintainance men came in to look at it, saw it was in "ceiling" didn't want to mess with it, said they would let them know and decided to never get back with him. It was an old couple, and they never did anything because they wasnt' sure what to do. As you can imagine with any condo complex getting someone to even come out is a nuisance. If its the condo's problem, i'll make them pay for it for replacement but if its just matter of little maintainance/bleeding I can do that myself.


    Pictures by handbuilt1020 - Photobucket
  2. Scuba_Dave

    Scuba_Dave Extreme DIY Homeowner

    Messages:
    885
    Location:
    South of Boston, MA
    You'll need to talk to the Condo Assoc to find out what they are responsible for, or check the information you should have received upon purchase
  3. drick

    drick In the Trades

    Messages:
    392
    What Dave says! This is a central heating system spanning the entire building. Seems to me that the association owns it not you. (If the roof needed repairing would they expect you to pay for repairs only to parts over your unit?) Unless there is something specific in the condo bylaws that state you own the heat exchanger I would expect the association to pick up the tab for this.

    Good luck. My experience with condo associations is the only thing that gets their attention is a lawsuit.

    -rick

    Oh, and get a copy of the bylaws BEFORE you tell them about the heat exchanger.
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2009
  4. Krazecon

    Krazecon New Member

    Messages:
    8
    NEW UPDATED INFO

    the person I changed out valve out for called me yesterday.. seems to be heat is working fine now...the problem
    GET THIS!
    THE THERMOSTAT!! what? no way in hell is the thermostat the problem, I am not a professional by any means in the HVAC trade but i'm also not stupid. The thermostat in this situation turns on and off the fan..thats it.. I mean there is 2 wires, just like a switch, when connected the blower comes on. Right??? I mean thats what happened when I connected the two together.

    Please all professionals write me back and let me know if this was incompetence on my part. I did change bleeders, I bled system, I found out they use black dye in system, which comes clear after while from what the maintainance guy said.
    I also found out they had the maintainance of complex come over checked over everything, had company called Oasis come out and they was going to bleed system with a "special pump" but coudn't because of bleeders? You would think that if it was the "thermostat" that these people would have pointed that out....correct.

    My guess is this, when pumping out and bleeding the system, I left the blower on all night, over time it must have loosened up the system. Before leaving I also lightly tapped the supply valves and piping, including the radiator of what I could access.. So this seem logical or am I kidding myself?

    I"m just
    1. trying to convince myself that it wasnt' that simple
    2. was to show them that my work was justified, I am getting paid for my time, but I have to know it was well deserved.

    http://s691.photobucket.com/albums/v...io plumbing/ I moved the pictures so links broke, link is above

    These are answers and my continued questions on another forum

    They could go to the fan.
    Or they could go to the fan, and a zone valve.


    heres pictures of what I could take of the job, i have more but dont' know if would be any more help. its a central commercial boiler, and directs water to each condo. has 2 valves, I dont' see any type of zone valve, although i'm not sure exactly what they look like or where they would be located if there is one. if there is one, it cannot be accessed without tearing out the ceiling.

    could you give me idea where a zone valve might be and how this would be possibly wired into the thermostat?

    thanks

    May be a circulating pump in the condo that is activated by the stat as well and sticks occasionally.



    well you would think...
    that more than just them didn't get heat. But I havent' been over there yet to collect or to get my few tools left. But they say its working, I just find it hard to believe its the thermostat.

    again 2 wires only sticking out of box just like romex..connect them blower turns on, release blower shuts off. I connected many thermostats in my day so I know it got hooked up properly. But just trying to think logical when they had a "hvac" guy come and say it was a thermostat. If only 2 wires are coming out, that are same gauge as like 12g romex and touching and releasing its activating the blower, How can a "professional" come in and say its a thermostat

    I'm thinking this guy is a fraud and just trying to collect on something.. But i'm not goign to judge anybody before I get the details, I'm not type to jump the gun. I think they conned this guy


    In my experience with that type of unit they all have their own circulating pump, sometimes built into the unit. Have also seen them set up with a solenoid valve or zone valve.


    Zone valve/solinoid valve could be anywhere.

    But, no matter what, if its working now, with just them changing out the stat.
    You'll never prove anything different.



    do you guys know the name or type of system this is? I tried to google it and find out exactly where this part could be boughten, and figure more about the specs but all I know is what you can see from the pics, its a ceiling mounted unit and has middle motor with middle rod that operates 2 blowers.

    What is this? where can I find it? does it have a trade name? air handler???

    numbers I have are as follows, my fiance wrote them down so maybe they are of use?

    listed fan unit coil, 27jf, first co dallas tx, 75227

    listed fan coil unit, 27jf, x.18.3/sa11605/L1994

    ser GO5
    FC152858 212544
    MODEL 8HBC-3 LH
    RATING 120V-1PH-60HZ
    60 AMP
    1/5HP
    MAX WATER TEMP 180F

    MOTOR THERMALLY PROTECTED,
    COIL DESIGN PRESSURE 300PSI

    does anything make sense to you? I'll google when get time( whever that happens) but I thought maybe some of you would know
    But I would like to know more about this product and its replacement and just so next time I am ahead of the game.

    Thank you so much for your output

    Check this out.
    https://********solutions.com/webapp...-1&req=catalog



    Thats just a fan coil uint.
    Made by First Company(very popular).
    Its the system its hooked to, is what you have to examine.




    Ok i'm going to look at that link here in just minute. So if noone else had the problem with their, It had to be the bleeding system then? I mean their maintainance crew couldnt' do nothing and checked the thermostat, oasis(big company) couldnt' do anything(without replacing whole unit) and I purged the coil and replaced the bleeders, bled the system and that would be what a "hvac pro" would have to have done to repair it? Not the thermostat? correct?
  5. Krazecon

    Krazecon New Member

    Messages:
    8
    also
    found out that homeowners are responsbile for the thermostat and coil, only thing association is responsible for is boiler system and since its not their boiler thats the problem its not their problem

    and the pictures are updated, there are 2 bleeders and I cut them out and replaced them, bled system and yada yada, all explained
  6. Krazecon

    Krazecon New Member

    Messages:
    8
    NEW UPDATED INFO

    the person I changed out valve out for called me yesterday.. seems to be heat is working fine now...the problem
    GET THIS!
    THE THERMOSTAT!! what? no way in hell is the thermostat the problem, I am not a professional by any means in the HVAC trade but i'm also not stupid. The thermostat in this situation turns on and off the fan..thats it.. I mean there is 2 wires, just like a switch, when connected the blower comes on. Right??? I mean thats what happened when I connected the two together.

    Please all professionals write me back and let me know if this was incompetence on my part. I did change bleeders, I bled system, I found out they use black dye in system, which comes clear after while from what the maintainance guy said.
    I also found out they had the maintainance of complex come over checked over everything, had company called Oasis come out and they was going to bleed system with a "special pump" but coudn't because of bleeders? You would think that if it was the "thermostat" that these people would have pointed that out....correct.

    My guess is this, when pumping out and bleeding the system, I left the blower on all night, over time it must have loosened up the system. Before leaving I also lightly tapped the supply valves and piping, including the radiator of what I could access.. So this seem logical or am I kidding myself?

    I"m just
    1. trying to convince myself that it wasnt' that simple
  7. Krazecon

    Krazecon New Member

    Messages:
    8
    2. was to show them that my work was justified, I am getting paid for my time, but I have to know it was well deserved.

    They could go to the fan.
    Or they could go to the fan, and a zone valve.

    http://s691.photobucket.com/albums/v...io plumbing/


    heres pictures of what I could take of the job, i have more but dont' know if would be any more help. its a central commercial boiler, and directs water to each condo. has 2 valves, I dont' see any type of zone valve, although i'm not sure exactly what they look like or where they would be located if there is one. if there is one, it cannot be accessed without tearing out the ceiling.

    could you give me idea where a zone valve might be and how this would be possibly wired into the thermostat?

    thanks


    May be a circulating pump in the condo that is activated by the stat as well and sticks occasionally.
  8. Krazecon

    Krazecon New Member

    Messages:
    8
    well you would think...

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    that more than just them didn't get heat. But I havent' been over there yet to collect or to get my few tools left. But they say its working, I just find it hard to believe its the thermostat.

    again 2 wires only sticking out of box just like romex..connect them blower turns on, release blower shuts off. I connected many thermostats in my day so I know it got hooked up properly. But just trying to think logical when they had a "hvac" guy come and say it was a thermostat. If only 2 wires are coming out, that are same gauge as like 12g romex and touching and releasing its activating the blower, How can a "professional" come in and say its a thermostat

    I'm thinking this guy is a fraud and just trying to collect on something.. But i'm not goign to judge anybody before I get the details, I'm not type to jump the gun. I think they conned this guy


    my experience with that type of unit they all have their own circulating pump, sometimes built into the unit. Have also seen them set up with a solenoid valve or zone valve.


    Zone valve/solinoid valve could be anywhere.

    But, no matter what, if its working now, with just them changing out the stat.
    You'll never prove anything different.


    do you guys know the name or type of system this is? I tried to google it and find out exactly where this part could be boughten, and figure more about the specs but all I know is what you can see from the pics, its a ceiling mounted unit and has middle motor with middle rod that operates 2 blowers.

    What is this? where can I find it? does it have a trade name? air handler???

    numbers I have are as follows, my fiance wrote them down so maybe they are of use?

    listed fan unit coil, 27jf, first co dallas tx, 75227

    listed fan coil unit, 27jf, x.18.3/sa11605/L1994

    ser GO5
    FC152858 212544
    MODEL 8HBC-3 LH
    RATING 120V-1PH-60HZ
    60 AMP
    1/5HP
    MAX WATER TEMP 180F

    MOTOR THERMALLY PROTECTED,
    COIL DESIGN PRESSURE 300PSI

    does anything make sense to you? I'll google when get time( whever that happens) but I thought maybe some of you would know
    But I would like to know more about this product and its replacement and just so next time I am ahead of the game.

    Thank you so much for your output
  9. Krazecon

    Krazecon New Member

    Messages:
    8
    Check this out.

    https://********solutions.com/webapp...-1&req=catalog


    Thats just a fan coil uint.
    Made by First Company(very popular).
    Its the system its hooked to, is what you have to examine.



    Ok i'm going to look at that link here in just minute. So if noone else had the problem with their, It had to be the bleeding system then? I mean their maintainance crew couldnt' do nothing and checked the thermostat, oasis(big company) couldnt' do anything(without replacing whole unit) and I purged the coil and replaced the bleeders, bled the system and that would be what a "hvac pro" would have to have done to repair it? Not the thermostat? correct?
  10. Krazecon

    Krazecon New Member

    Messages:
    8
    I dont mean to confuse you guys, but I had all this copied and pasted into a single form and it wouldnt' post. So I had to do it in different ones. The post if you can understand them are from another forum.

    I talked with association and they are only responsible for the boiler and pipes up to the shutoff, after that its the clients responsibility.

    Not sure where to get copy of bylaws at though.. trying to find the system in google now,
  11. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,148
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    heating

    I might try to give a diagnosis, IF it did not mean slogging through myriads of descriptions and analysis WITHOUT being able to find the pictures.
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