Any recommendations or opinions on poly pipe to use on a long haul

Discussion in 'Pumps and Tanks Well Forum & Blog' started by Dale Facey, Jul 8, 2011.

  1. Dale Facey

    Dale Facey New Member

    Messages:
    6
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    Just researching, I don't know too much about the well business, but would anyone give me advice on what would likely be best option on piping for a new well

    likely going to be a 1/2hp or 3/4hp pump, between 160 - 180 feet deep

    the horizontal run from well head to house approximately 1100'

    Would it be risky to run the 1" poly pipe 100 psi with green stripe that far?

    What are the risks with long hauls and piping ?

    thanks
  2. Texas Wellman

    Texas Wellman In the Trades

    Messages:
    554
    Location:
    SE Texas-Coastal
    I'm not a fan of poly pipe and never will be. That being said, if you do decide to use it, make sure you use at least 160 or 200 psi rated pipe, not 100 psi. I suspect that 100 psi being the standard here has a lot to do with my hatred of the stuff. If you do decide to use 100 psi, make sure you keep plenty of sharp shovels and digging tools handy because you will be doing plenty of repair work on a 1100 ft line. I think if you look hard enough you can find it in 500' or greater rolls which will reduce the connections.

    I have not looked at the specs so I'm not sure what the head loss would be on an 1100' run, but I would at least go with 1.25" or 1.5" pipe, depending on your flow requirements. Be sure to make your ditch as straight as possible and I would try to backfill with sand or such if at all possible.
  3. Tom Sawyer

    Tom Sawyer In the Trades

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    3,309
    Location:
    Maine
    IIRC my pump which is a 3/4 / 10 has been hanging @ 220' on 160lb PE now for close to 30 years.
  4. masterpumpman

    masterpumpman New Member

    Messages:
    729
    Location:
    Virginia Beach, VA
    I wouldn't recommend 100" PE but we've used 160 and 200# PE in wells and water systems for years. I would consider using 1-1/4" on a 1100 ft run. 1" would be fine on the pump.
  5. Dale Facey

    Dale Facey New Member

    Messages:
    6
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    Thanks everyone.

    Sorry for sounding naïve here, trying to gain knowledge so not to waste money on my next attempt at a good well but let me ask a more generic question.

    I know a 1100' run from well to house will be pricey, what would be your thoughts on things to be concerned with? Risks? Ways to save on cost?

    Ie. My knowlegde of poly pipe is that one measure is a psi number. So what is this? Do I need to be c
    oncerned about pressure inside the pipe and/ or outside the pipe (pressure of the ground to bury pipe)

    This well will be for house, tub draws most water at about 3gpm.

    Ill take all advice, direct or indirect regarding my " 1100' haul from well risks".

    Thanks again
  6. DonL

    DonL Jack of all trades Master of one

    Messages:
    4,509
    Location:
    Houston, TX
    Like Texas Wellman said "Be sure to make your ditch as straight as possible and I would try to backfill with sand or such if at all possible."

    I would go with 1.5 inch if you want a good flow rate, for that 1100 foot distance.

    The higher the pressure rating, the less chance that it will collapse under the shifting grounds weight.

    There is more to it than the pressure that it can hold under water pressure.

    It can get crushed, if driven over and the ground dirt shifting.

    I like schedule 40 PVC myself. Cost more but last a lifetime.


    Enjoy your project.


    DonL
  7. gritres

    gritres New Member

    Messages:
    56
    Location:
    nw florida
    the chances of 160# poly being damaged merely by shifting earth are like one in a million. it's worth the extra cost over the 100# poly, not because you need it to sustain the water pressure but just for having thicker walls for general wear and tear during installation and future shovels that may hit it. if you trench it a good couple feet under the ground and pack earth back over it solidly ie no air pockets you won't have any trouble unless you're really driving heavy machinery over it. the other danger is freezing but i live in the subtropics and dont know crap about that. the ground pressure at that depth is inconsequential. the nice thing about poly is that for the size you will have the last amount of pressure loss assuming you make a nice straight trench, you dont have to mess with a bunch of couplings. PVC is great too, but it's really a personal preference and based on local prices. go with at least 1 1/4 and you wont need to worry about flow rate issues.

    just consider when somebody makes a geothermal loop where they've got thousands of feet of buried pipe they make it out of poly. it will essentially last forever just like the PVC and there's less to get wrong.
    you definitely could use 100# poly, you're not going to have over 100 pounds of pressure in that pipe ever, but it's sort of skimping it if you plan on having this thing operating for decades to come.

    i'd be more concerned about the well, moving water 1000 feet on land is relatively easy compared to digging over a hundred feet into the earth and hoping you get a steady water supply. make sure you talk to people in the area and aren't drilling a hole to nowheresville.
  8. Texas Wellman

    Texas Wellman In the Trades

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    554
    Location:
    SE Texas-Coastal

    Actually Don the last time I priced sch 40 PVC to 160 or 200 psi poly the PVC was cheaper.

    I prefer sch 40 belled end pvc for all my buried applications.
  9. LLigetfa

    LLigetfa DIYer, not in the trades

    Messages:
    4,185
    Location:
    NW Ontario, Canada
    Around here we need to go much deeper to stay below the frost. I put my pitless and waterline 8 feet below grade.
  10. Tom Sawyer

    Tom Sawyer In the Trades

    Messages:
    3,309
    Location:
    Maine
    Not sure what the advantages of PVC would be. It takes a whole lot more time to install it. There would be god knows how many joints to screw with and I just dont see a reason for not using PE
  11. ballvalve

    ballvalve General Engineering Contractor

    Messages:
    3,261
    Location:
    northfork, california
    Poly pipe down the hole, of course. at least 160 psi. Poly to the house especially if you can get a 1000' roll. But you NEED to know how to make the poly joints correctly.

    20' sticks of bell end PVC here are about .25 a foot vs. .57 cents a foot for poly.

    The PVC you can build on the surface and kick it in the hole the next day just like Poly. If its not in a road, a few inches of clean dirt cover is all you need before backfill.

    1'' will work especially if the tank is at the house. 1-1/4 isn't much more money in PVC.
  12. Texas Wellman

    Texas Wellman In the Trades

    Messages:
    554
    Location:
    SE Texas-Coastal
    FIFY

    The glue only takes minutes to dry.

  13. ballvalve

    ballvalve General Engineering Contractor

    Messages:
    3,261
    Location:
    northfork, california
    Well, thats of course true, but I hope you give it a good 10 minutes at least. But if you use good glue which is heavy set grey, I dont like to move it for at least an hour. And if he wants to really do it right, he'll pressure test it before it goes in the hole.
  14. Texas Wellman

    Texas Wellman In the Trades

    Messages:
    554
    Location:
    SE Texas-Coastal
    I set PVC drop line on glue that dries in minutes. Five minutes is plenty for glue to set and be ready. As always, pressure test before you bury. I always use clear glue, I hate that colored stuff.
  15. ballvalve

    ballvalve General Engineering Contractor

    Messages:
    3,261
    Location:
    northfork, california
    Then you must really hate that purple primer which is even worse.
  16. Texas Wellman

    Texas Wellman In the Trades

    Messages:
    554
    Location:
    SE Texas-Coastal
    It's the bane of my existence. LOL.
  17. Obama the Plumber

    Obama the Plumber Plumber

    Messages:
    47
    Location:
    Washington DC
    [​IMG] I found this info on a post here.

    I'm thinking 1.5" pipe at least.




    A standard one-bath home with kitchen sink, dishwasher, water heater, clothes-washer, 1.6 tank toilet, lavatory, tub/shower combo and two hose bibs would be counted as 18 fixture units. ​

    Most standard two bath homes consisting of kitchen sink, dishwasher, water heater, clothes-washer, two 1.6 tank toilet, two lavatories, one shower, one tub/shower combo, and two hose bibs would be counted as 23.5 fixture units.


    Most standard three bath homes consisting of kitchen sink, dishwasher, water heater, clothes-washer, three 1.6 tank toilet, four lavatories, two showers, one tub/shower combo, one whirlpool bath and two hose bibs would be counted as 34 fixture units.



    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
  18. ballvalve

    ballvalve General Engineering Contractor

    Messages:
    3,261
    Location:
    northfork, california
    Here is another chart with many more options. At 17 GPM, 1.25" pipe only gives 1.9 psi loss per 100 foot.

    http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/pe-pipe-pressure-loss-d_619.html

    If he's irrigating and has house interior sprinklers, he's into the 2" range.

    Poly and PVC are essentially the same for these calcs. But dont stick a pile of elbows in!
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2011
  19. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,416
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    Ballvalve, always thinking of living by yourself in a one bath home.
    Most of us have family. They have needs too.

    It reminds me of a Boeing Engineer that was bragging about how small a pipe he ran from the well to the house. Like that was a good thing.

    My friend that I was plumbing a home for, another Boeing Engineer, took my advice and ran 1.5"
    He has three acres and was installing some irrigation for the huge lawn, and has three bathrooms.
    His house is about 400 feet from the street.

    He had kids, so getting everyone off for school in the morning was important.
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2011
  20. ballvalve

    ballvalve General Engineering Contractor

    Messages:
    3,261
    Location:
    northfork, california
    2" flowing 60 GPM gives less than 2 psi drop per 100' . So if he starts at 150 psi he'll have about 130 psi at the house. If that cant flush his mormon families Totos and irrigate his lawn at night when everyone is asleep, then He's got a dairy. Then I'll give him 8" ductile iron.

    Just ran 4400' of 1.25" up a mountain and the outlet is 7gpm into a 4000 gallon tank. Down feeds as uses develop. Lots of submersibles can develop 350 PSI, and PVC is good to WORK at 450PSI, in general.

    Trying to save the generally poor public and our enviroment a bit of materials.

    You guys use fixture units, but seem to forget that they alternate use unless its a day care center. I just advocate design of the feed for the proposed maximum use.
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