Antisiphon Valve Headache, Just Weld It Shut?

Discussion in 'Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice, Tips & ' started by terry709, May 3, 2014.

  1. terry709

    terry709 New Member

    Messages:
    4
    Location:
    Oregon
    I'm not a professional and not even a good DIY guy, so bear with my attempt to describe my projedct. A faucet installed outside is the frost free thing with the anti-siphon valve on top (has a round cap) which has always leaked water from under that round screwed on cap when the water is turned on. I replaced that part with a kit from Home Depot, screwed the cap down good and the water sprayed out worse than ever. Well, I've had it with this thing, so got some J-B Weld and glued the cap onto the faucet itself {after removing the inside part that the cap used to screw onto.} I'm going to turn the water on in the morning after the epoxy cures real good and see what happens. Is there anything to worry about by welding that cap on there? My simplistic reasoning is that it will simply function now like a faucet w/o the anti-siphon feature. Will my pipes explode or something awful happen?
    Thanks for any input.
    Terry709
  2. Gary Swart

    Gary Swart In the Trades

    Messages:
    7,296
    Location:
    Yakima WA
    No explosion, but what do you suppose the "anti siphon" part of the description means? It mean that this will prevent contamination that might get into an attached hose from siphoning back into you home water supply. So, the pipes won't blow up and maybe nothing will happen to you or your family. A little Ecoli never hurt anyone...or yeah it did. Replace faucet.
  3. Jerome2877

    Jerome2877 In the Trades

    Messages:
    397
    Location:
    BC
    While your at it why not plug your T&P valve on your water heater and see what might happen? You could get the explosion your talking about!

    These devices are for your family and other peoples safety and are required by most codes.
  4. quarterball

    quarterball New Member

    Messages:
    13
    Location:
    Ohio
    Best way to start is to supply a photo of your frostproof sillcock. There are many, many manufacturers of these - but they look pretty much the same to the average homeowner. Your photo may show marks that identify the manufacturer and then we can possibly direct you to the correct source for proper repair parts. There is a good chance the repair kit from HD was a generic item and not designed for your sillcock. In addition to providing the anti-siphon benefits described by the other posters, the internal parts of the vacuum breaker (when working properly) form a seal that prevents leakage when the water is turned on.
  5. SHR

    SHR Member

    Messages:
    85
    Location:
    Minnesota
    What? You bought a part for a Ford and it did not work on your Chevy? Just weld it in place and call it good? Faucet parts are NOT interchangeable across brands. You purchased a brand specific part from Home Depot and installed it on an unknown brand it was not designed for. You can post pictures of your faucet and a member here may be able to identify it give you repair advice. Otherwise replace the entire faucet.
  6. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,227
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    If it does not leak, which it probably will, then attach a regular backflow device on to the outlet, just like any other hose bibb without an integral vacuum breaker. Now you see why I do NOT like "integral" devices of any kind. Once they go bad, it can be problematical to fix them.
  7. DonL

    DonL Jack of all trades

    Messages:
    3,810
    Location:
    Houston, TX
    That is really all you need.

    I am lucky and not required to use that crap.

    If you turn the valve off it can not siphon back anyway.

    A power fail or water outage should be the only worry. Then just a External check Valve should work.


    If your house water system is in a vacuum, and it can suck from your water hose, You can bet it is sucking from your toilet also.
  8. Jerome2877

    Jerome2877 In the Trades

    Messages:
    397
    Location:
    BC
    No the fill valves are also anti siphon.
  9. DonL

    DonL Jack of all trades

    Messages:
    3,810
    Location:
    Houston, TX

    That may be true on the new ones, If they work.

    Old school valves never had it, Nor was a Vacuum on the system the norm.


    Most of that crap never works, But it satisfies useless Codes.


    Check out Flood safe, for a good example.
  10. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,227
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    quote; I am lucky and not required to use that crap.

    It is a FEDERAL CLEAN WATER REQUIREMENT, so you ARE required to "use that crap".

    quote; If you turn the valve off it can not siphon back anyway.


    They are for when the valve IS open and the main water supply is shut off. There have been MANY, MANY cases where it has happened. One notable one was when an exterminator was filling his poison tank and the city turned off the mains to fix a leak. the tank was almost full when that happened, but it was empty in a very short order and the entire city system was contaminated and had to be cleaned.


    A power fail or water outage should be the only worry. Then just a External check Valve should work.

    Not even a consideration.


    If your house water system is in a vacuum, and it can suck from your water hose, You can bet it is sucking from your toilet also.

    The toilet tank is also siphonage protected, but it it does NOT contain chemicals, dirt, etc. which a swimming pool, lawn irrigation system, or hose hanging in a bucket of "something" would.

    IF you are a "rocket scientist" don't quit your day job, because you would not last long as a plumber.
  11. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,227
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    quote; Check out Flood safe, for a good example.

    Floodsafes are NOT a code requirement. It was someone's cure which was worse than the original problem.
  12. DonL

    DonL Jack of all trades

    Messages:
    3,810
    Location:
    Houston, TX

    You are correct.

    If I was a plumber in Texas I would not last very long, My Spanish is not that great.


    The new private wells will have meters soon.


    My guess it will have a check valve built in.
  13. terry709

    terry709 New Member

    Messages:
    4
    Location:
    Oregon
    Thank you all!
    I just turned water on, with pressure nozzle attached to the hose, and J-B Weld held. Will attach pics as suggested. 1 pic is of another faucet, w/o the anti-siphon. I have 5 faucets outside and only the 1 has it. Wonder why. Maybe 1 serves all?
    You can see in 1 pic the 26" x 17" board to the right of the faucet covering the area where I cut a hole & removed siding to get a look at the pipe where the faucet attaches. I wanted to replace it and do it correctly, but that area is the window seat and all I uncovered was studs and insulation and boards. Not wanting to deface the front side around the faucet I went to plan B, the weld. I'm not clear on this frost free, anti-siphon concept; still reading about it. I guess we lived with the risk of siphon effect for a long time before these came into usage. 9 years ago we added onto the house and here was this faucet that gurgled water out the top as well and the front. What the hell is this, I thought. Oh well, no big deal, we live with it. So now I learn that it should not have gurgled out the top and he did something wrong or should have replaced the thing. OK, I will add the photos and see what humiliation I bring upon myself via comments. But I'm learning, so onward and whatever. Thanks again for replies.
    Terry709 IMG_5458.jpg IMG_5459.jpg IMG_5461.jpg IMG_5463.jpg IMG_5462.jpg
  14. asktom

    asktom Member

    Messages:
    510
    Location:
    Victor, MT
    Your valve was made by Arrowhead Brass Products and you can (last time I looked) buy the proper repair parts directly from them on line.
  15. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    21,798
    Location:
    New England
    I do not know when the anti-siphon silcocks became code, but like many things, until you change them, they are grandfathered. That does not mean they are not important. For your safety, your family's, and your neighbors, all should have an antisiphon vacuum breaker on their outside faucets, and for example, they are required on your kitchen faucet sprayer and handheld shower wand in the bathroom, too. The toilet supply valves have them, and if you had a plumbed in sprinkler system, it would need to be a more expensive, and complex valve that in some places must be tested annually and recertified. Something like this can easily be added to each silcock and provide that safety function.

    Attached Files:

  16. terry709

    terry709 New Member

    Messages:
    4
    Location:
    Oregon
    Thank you! Neighbors' safety too, you say jadnashua ? What's that about? Toilet, sprinklers, kitchen sprayer. Wow, I don't know how we survived all these years w/o these things, huh. My parents, my grandparents. Lived with the old system and never a problem with back siphon.
    Well....mine is welded shut w/o a squirt or a drip and I think I'll just live with the odds of the siphon scenario ever happening. The hose has a pressure nozzle on it. It is never submerged in a pool or fountain, etc. I suppose anything is possible, but I think I'll just embrace a little peace of mind for now. Plenty of other things to worry about. But thanks again for the input! Best wishes to all!
  17. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    14,749
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    I don't worry about your safety, but I do worry about my customers. :)
  18. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,227
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    quote; My guess it will have a check valve built in.

    That has absolutely NOTHING to do with whether you an introduce contamination into YOUR plumbing system by sucking stuff through a hose.

    quote; I do not know when the anti-siphon silcocks became code, but like many things, until you change them, they are grandfathered

    Bad advice, so don't quit your day job either. They have been "required" for decades and are NOT "grandfathered in". IF you had work done on your building which required an inspection, the inspector COULD, and often does, REQUIRE that they be installed, regardless of how old your faucet is.
  19. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,227
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    quote; he hose has a pressure nozzle on it. It is never submerged in a pool or fountain, etc. I suppose anything is possible, but I think I'll just embrace a little peace of mind for now

    Ignorance is bliss, and God protects the innocent. What YOU do is immaterial, because it is what someone ELSE does that could create the problem. I was working next to an extermination company and they had at least six hoses to fill there tanks and NONE of them had the required MINIMUM backflow prevention.
    Last edited: May 5, 2014
  20. DonL

    DonL Jack of all trades

    Messages:
    3,810
    Location:
    Houston, TX
    Who Pissed in your Wheaties hj ? lol

    I agree.

    Some day I need to bring my house up to code.

    The Government should give a property tax break for such thing.

    Then they can raise your taxes for a improvement.
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