Another "toilet flange" too high question

Discussion in 'Toilet Forum discussions' started by jrseaberg, Dec 24, 2006.

  1. jrseaberg

    jrseaberg New Member

    Messages:
    42
    Location:
    central IL
    DSC01503   2.jpg I have just finished "dry fitting" my new pvc plumbing for a total bathroom remodel. The toilet flange is too high for my anticipated finished tile floor level, by about 1". The current dryfit has the correct slope. (I will sister new joists next to the ones that have been "notched" to re-establish structural integrity.)

    I suspect there may be a different way to get what I need, but the big box stores around here don't give a lot of options.

    Does anyone know of alternative plumbing pieces or ideas other than raising the floor or putting the stool on a platform?

    Does anyone see any problems with the layout of the rough in plumbing to this point?

    Thanks!
    Jim Seaberg
  2. srdenny

    srdenny Plumbing Contractor

    Messages:
    361
    Location:
    SF Peninsula
    "Does anyone see any problems with the layout of the rough in plumbing to this point?"
    Where's the vent for the WC?
    If it's behind the wall, then the 2" line branching off the 3" before the 1/4 bend is going to cause a wet vent situation.
    Are you aware that the cuts made in the floor joist completely ruined it from a structural standpoint?

    Does anyone know of alternative plumbing pieces or ideas other than raising the floor or putting the stool on a platform?
    Try using a 3x4 PVC closet bent and a 4" spigot ring. The 3x4 bend has a shorter pattern then the 3" st 90 you're using. Otherwise, build up the floor.
  3. jrseaberg

    jrseaberg New Member

    Messages:
    42
    Location:
    central IL
    vent issue

    Time to show how little I know....

    The 3" waste line goes into a vertical 4" cast iron line that extends through the roof.

    So, I assume that this does create a "wet vent". I basically re-constructed what had been there when I tore out the plywood patch floor. In speaking with the previous owner, the original lead drain to the bathtub failed, so he made the repair/replacement in the attached pic. (note the wye and, if you can see it, there was a 1.5" belly in the 2" line.

    The two inch line you see coming in is for the shower (yet to be installed). There is a sanitary T where a 1.5" line will run to the vanity, that is vented up the wall, then through the roof. The trap for the shower is 4.5 feet from the main vertical stack, and about 5 feet to the vanity vent. ( I have read here that 5 feet is too far for venting for 1.5" pipe, I think.)

    Anyone want to make a road trip to beautiful Decatur, Illinois? We are the soybean capital of the world!

    Jim

    Suggestions on how to correct? HELP!

    I like to work on the supply side of plumbing a lot better than the waste side!:) (At least it is fairly easy to understand....)

    p.s. I assume the toilet has been unchanged since originally installed, circa 1914, until the "repair" you see below. And yes, the joists will be sistered with new lumber to bring back their structural integrity.

    Thanks!

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Dec 24, 2006
  4. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,011
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    I like to use the 4x3 closet street bend with 4" hub ring, I can cut one side to slip down farther over the bend.

    You still need a way to vent those things. Sometimes you have to cut in a wye fititng in the vertical wall below.

    [​IMG]
  5. TNPlumber

    TNPlumber Plumbing Contractor

    Messages:
    31
    Location:
    East Tennessee
    You need a vent.

    Regardless of how it was before, your wc needs to be vented. I'm afraid when you flush the toilet with this set up, you will suck the traps dry on your other bathroom fixtures.

    Here are my suggestions, not being able to see the whole system. Where your 2" branch line is now, move it back a joist bay closer to where you sliced into the cast iron. Where your 2" branch for you shower/ vanity is currently, use this area to configure a vent. But you won't be able to use the wye in it's current configuration because it lying on it's side.

    Structurally, something needs to be done to these joists--they have been butchered over the years. Others may have a better plan, but regardless, you need to vent each fixture.

    Just my 2 cents,

    Scott
  6. jrseaberg

    jrseaberg New Member

    Messages:
    42
    Location:
    central IL
    Let me ask single questions...

    So, even though the toilet sits about 2' from the main waste/vent line, the WC needs a vent independent of the 3" PVC? (Is this what you mean by a "wet vent"?)

    Is that what the 3" elbow w/ a 2" side inlet or back inlet that I have seen is for?
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2006
  7. jrseaberg

    jrseaberg New Member

    Messages:
    42
    Location:
    central IL
    2nd individual question

    The vanity is vented up through the wall, and out through the roof, too.

    Do I need to worry about venting that again? Or can I tie the drain line into the 2" shower drain line as I have dry fit it (the 2"X1.5" wye laying on its side in the picture.)? (I gather the wye should be a T?)
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2006
  8. jrseaberg

    jrseaberg New Member

    Messages:
    42
    Location:
    central IL
    3rd individual question

    The shower trap is just outside the lower left corner of the picture. Can I cut that line, install a T, and vent it up the wall, and tie into the cast iron main vent line in the attic?

    Do I have to? I thought that I read that a 2" drain line could be 5' from the main drain according to one of the codes, and not be vented. (I told you, I don't know too much!!!)

    If I do need to cut in a vent, can it be 1.5" pvc for the shower 2" drain? I suppose it would be between the shower trap and currently dry-fit wye. Would I use a 2" X 1.5" T for the correct fitting. It would have to run horizontally for about 1.5', to the open wall cavity seen in the picture.
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2006
  9. jrseaberg

    jrseaberg New Member

    Messages:
    42
    Location:
    central IL
    Thanks, Scott

    (From Scott) "Here are my suggestions, not being able to see the whole system. Where your 2" branch line is now, move it back a joist bay closer to where you sliced into the cast iron. Where your 2" branch for you shower/ vanity is currently, use this area to configure a vent. But you won't be able to use the wye in it's current configuration because it lying on it's side."


    Scott, I don't think I have room to run a fitting with a 2" line, unless it would be a 3X2 T with the 2" coming off to the side, into the next joist bay.

    I gather from your comment about the wye, that fitting should be a T instead?
  10. jrseaberg

    jrseaberg New Member

    Messages:
    42
    Location:
    central IL
    Joists

    btw...

    All joists will be sistered w/ 2x8, from support to support, to renew structural integrity. (Orig. Joists are 2X10 full dimension).
  11. Randyj

    Randyj Master Plumber

    Messages:
    1,047
    Location:
    Alabama
    In the beginnings of my plumbing career I had an inspector to suggest that I remove the 90 ell and replace it with a sanitary tee with a clean out plug in a very similar situation. It worked for me and I got rid of too much height.
  12. jrseaberg

    jrseaberg New Member

    Messages:
    42
    Location:
    central IL
    sketch

    Thanks for the idea!

    Here is a rough sketch of my understanding to this point.... I think......

    Would this work for the vents?

    Attached Files:

  13. Randyj

    Randyj Master Plumber

    Messages:
    1,047
    Location:
    Alabama
    It appears to me that the 45 going into the toilet branch is backwards/against the flow. That wye is installed backwards.
  14. jrseaberg

    jrseaberg New Member

    Messages:
    42
    Location:
    central IL
    wye...

    I was thinking that the shower drain would tie into the toilet branch using a 3X3X2 T, not a wye. That would give me the needed clearance to miss the joist with the 2" branch line. Is a wye required there?
  15. Randyj

    Randyj Master Plumber

    Messages:
    1,047
    Location:
    Alabama
    Some codes are very strict about using tees, others don't care. For me, if there is little question about worrying about cleaning it out I would use either, codes permiting. If it's within a few feet of the drain I wouldn't worry about it. Pretty much, any clog that appeared in the 3" line would be washed by the toilet flushing....but you definitely do not want a wye or 45 pointed against the direction of flow, especially of a flushing toilet.
  16. jrseaberg

    jrseaberg New Member

    Messages:
    42
    Location:
    central IL
    backwards wye

    Randy, in the pic of what my plumbing looked like originally, the wye was backward.

    The latest idea was the sketch a couple of posts back.

    Does that look like it would take care of my venting issues?

    Thanks!
    Jim
  17. srdenny

    srdenny Plumbing Contractor

    Messages:
    361
    Location:
    SF Peninsula
    By branching off the 4" closet bend on the upstream side of the 4" vent, you are creating a horizontal wet vent. Wye off the 4" vertical riser below the closet tee and run your other two fixtures off that line. The vent off the shower should come off a combo roled to an 1/8" bend before it heads horizontally to the nearest wall.
  18. TNPlumber

    TNPlumber Plumbing Contractor

    Messages:
    31
    Location:
    East Tennessee
    Your latest drawing

    Sorry, but your newest sketch doesn't convey what I was trying to tell you. I would have a pro take a look.
  19. Randyj

    Randyj Master Plumber

    Messages:
    1,047
    Location:
    Alabama
    JrSeaberg... my bad... long cold day and I'm easily confused... U R correct about the old plumbing & wye in the pic....I stand corrected!

    As far as I can tell it looks okay to me and will work, everything is vented. You could tie the 2" vents together (at the top) to simplify. I don't know what the rules are concerning distance of vent from any particular point in plumbing...if there are rules. I recently worked on a huge commercial project that called for 2" vents on about 20 fixtures for 50 or so feet before going thru the roof. I think everyone and every inspector has a different idea of how vents are supposed to be tied together and constructed. I think Terry's drawings have helped me understand venting more than all the rule books have confused/taught me. I believe what TNPlumber and srdenny were trying to suggest is to take the shower and sink drain to the vertical 3" (or is it 4") pipe rather than to the closet branch. With the venting you show.. I don't see a problem with the toilet flushing sucking out the traps of the other fixtures.
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2006
  20. jrseaberg

    jrseaberg New Member

    Messages:
    42
    Location:
    central IL
    inspector

    I met today with plumbing inspector, and showed him my "homework", the printout of this thread and my sketch of proposed venting. He seemed impressed that there were sites like this available.

    He was agreeable (and said that anything would be an improvement over what was there, and he doesn't want to make me tear out plaster downstairs), and his only "suggestion" was to oversize the run of 2" horizontal drain (49") (up to the shower trap) with 3". He said I can go with 3"x 1.5" wye-1/8 streets for my vanity drain and shower vent.

    He said that would "make up" for not having the WC vented, and he would accept that.

    Does that make sense?
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