Another stuck Moen shower valve that needs help

[Big Dave]

Hi all,

Trying to replace the trim of the shower valve and single handle. I can't tell the manufacturer (it's not anywhere on the fixture.) Set screw was stuck beyond belief. I drill it out carefully, and after a bunch of PB Blaster, was able to yank it off. I then got the screw from the middle of the corroded handle adapter or whatever this thing is called off. But, that's it. I'm able to move the thing in and out (like it used to do to the water on/off of course.) It will also spin all the way around counter-clockwise, past the stop if I want it to. I'm scared though to keep turning that way.

I was "assuming" that this piece would just pop off and hopefully allow me to just install the new bronze cover and handle stuff. But alas, it won't come off. I've sprayed more PB Blaster around it, and inside, knocked it with a hammer, let sit, etc., but nothing.

I don't think this is a "just keep spinning it counter-clockwise" thing. And, I'm scared I might screw something up if I do so. I would think this piece would just slide off, showing me the cartridge. So, should I just keep forcing out or spin it or what?

I also attached the pic if the link below doesn't work.

Thanks for any help!

 

[Smooky]

It looks like a Moen

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Terry]

Moen 1225 or 1200 cartridge and a Chauteau trim. Either a crystal handle or lever for trim.
That valve pulls out for volumn and left for hot, right for cold. and once past the stop will spin 360.
The cartridge is held by a U shaped clip that is under the chrome sleeve.

 

[Big Dave]

Moen 1225 or 1200 cartridge and a Chauteau trim. Either a crystal handle or lever for trim.
That valve pulls out for volumn and left for hot, right for cold. and once past the stop will spin 360.
The cartridge is held by a U shaped clip that is under the chrome sleeve.

It is a lever for the trim. Well, was until I drilled out the set screw.

So I have to pry that sleeve out of the way in order to access this u shaped clip? The sleeve won't move very far whatsoever.

And, I really didn't think I had to remove the cartridge to put this new handle on?

Thanks.

 

[Terry]

You don't. The part that holds the lever attaches with a single screw. The fact that you sounded confused about that made wonder if you had tried and failed with that.

 

[hj]

You have to remove that "adapter" from the stem before you can do ANYTHING else. Once the screw is removed, the adapter may have to be pried off because they can corrode and lock to the stem.

 

[Big Dave]

You have to remove that "adapter" from the stem before you can do ANYTHING else. Once the screw is removed, the adapter may have to be pried off because they can corrode and lock to the stem.

I had already removed the screw. The adapter is locked to the stem.

I've tried pb blaster on it along with various kinds of directional force. Any other tips to get it "unlocked"?

 

[Big Dave]

You don't. The part that holds the lever attaches with a single screw. The fact that you sounded confused about that made wonder if you had tried and failed with that.

I have already removed the screw. The confusion was about how the entire handle adapter could spin with the cartridge. I thought maybe it screwed in or something. But, it looks like the adapter is just corroded and has bonded with the stem itself.

 

[Reach4]

I had already removed the screw. The adapter is locked to the stem.

I've tried pb blaster on it along with various kinds of directional force. Any other tips to get it "unlocked"?

Gear/wheel or other puller? http://www.homedepot.com/s/puller?NCNI-5

 

[Big Dave]

Gear/wheel or other puller? http://www.homedepot.com/s/puller?NCNI-5

Ya, saw those during my latest trip to HD. It might work if that middle piece can get on the screw hole area. I just can't believe that stupid handle adapter could be stuck that hard.
Thanks.

 

[Reach4]

It might work if that middle piece can get on the screw hole area.

If you are not committed to changing out the valve, or at least whatever piece that stem is part of, I would screw in a cap screw or Phillips screw, and push against that.

An alternative might also be a slide hammer. That pulls without pushing, but then the wall might take some force. If you get a puller applying force, you can then do some tapping. If you could pull with a slide hammer while a puller is also applying force, that would be good. Some auto parts places loan tools that are commonly used on cars. A slide hammer might be one of those tools.

 

[CountryBumkin]

A die-grinder to cut through the old handle would work. cut a nice deep groove all the way across it then stick in a wide blade screw driver into the cut and twist to split the old handle.

 

[Big Dave]

If you are not committed to changing out the valve, or at least whatever piece that stem is part of, I would screw in a cap screw or Phillips screw, and push against that.

An alternative might also be a slide hammer. That pulls without pushing, but then the wall might take some force. If you get a puller applying force, you can then do some tapping. If you could pull with a slide hammer while a puller is also applying force, that would be good. Some auto parts places loan tools that are commonly used on cars. A slide hammer might be one of those tools.

I sure don't want to have to do anything with the valve. It's behind tile. I was hoping to "just" change this chrome fixture to bronze. And not have to even change the cartridge. ;-)

I think I'll buy that puller, screw a nice sturdy something into the screw hole to push on, and see if that goes.

Thanks.

 

[Terry]

If you have to replace the cartridge, it's only about $20.00 for the Moen 1225.
I like changing them ever so often anyway.
It depends on how it looks after the handle is off. It may be okay.

 

[Big Dave]

If you have to replace the cartridge, it's only about $20.00 for the Moen 1225.
I like changing them ever so often anyway.
It depends on how it looks after the handle is off. It may be okay.

Ok, sounds good. Not getting back to this until the weekend now. Can't afford to have the water off for any extended time!

 

[Cwhyu2]

The stem is broken and that is why you had a handle that was not made for that stem.
You need to cut that pot metal flange off first.
I see that the valve body sleve has rotated to left of center.
Once the that flange is off pull the sleve is off and then you will see the body of the faucet.
At the end of the body of the faucet you you will see a tab at the end and top of the faucet body.
Pull on that tab and that enable you to remove the cartrage.
But it may not be all that easy.

 

[Big Dave]

The stem is broken and that is why you had a handle that was not made for that stem.
You need to cut that pot metal flange off first.
I see that the valve body sleve has rotated to left of center.
Once the that flange is off pull the sleve is off and then you will see the body of the faucet.
At the end of the body of the faucet you you will see a tab at the end and top of the faucet body.
Pull on that tab and that enable you to remove the cartrage.
But it may not be all that easy.

I think the handle was made for the stem. It was an entire assembly when it was put on 20 years ago. The moen site shows that handle and adapter just like I have now. It's just the adapter is stuck on there.
The valve body sleeve does rotate a bit, but not all the way around. It was also stuck to the outside of the valve, but loosened up a bit when a PB Blasted things the first time. It now slides in and out with the cartridge (since I also took the escutcheon screws out.)
The trouble is getting that flange off. Hopefully once that is off, the cartridge will slip right out. HAHA.
Thanks.

 

[hj]

quote; Hopefully once that is off, the cartridge will slip right out. HAHA.
Thanks.

Haha! in most cases that is NOT going to happen.

 

[Big Dave]

Project Update
No chance that adapter was coming off on its own. I soaked it in pb blaster, knocked it with a hammer, used a rigged up handle puller, etc. The handle puller actually yanked the little metal flange pieces off the adapter!
So, out came the tin snips. I cut the escutcheon off so I could get to the stop tube part. Luckily, that stop tube thing was not a full cylinder; it had an cut out in it that just bent around the valve. Once that was off, I pulled the retainer pin. After some more pb blaster and pounding, OUT CAME THE CARTRIDGE with the adapter still attached. And, the cartridge ALL came out, not just the innards. Holy cow.

Now the funny part. Bought a new 1225 cartridge at home depot, cleaned up the value a bit, inserted the new cartridge, clip in, awesome. Then I went to install the new Banbury fixture we had picked out. Of course, that fixture is not compatible with the Chateau stuff (valve depth, escutcheon mounting holes both wrong.) Ug.

I seriously can't pull the valve out of course (tile with no access from the other side.) So, hopefully there is either an adapter from moen or something I can do here. The stop tube part on the new one is way too long and the escutcheon plate holes align with the new valve (kind of 8 oclock and 2 oclock), and those aren't the same as the Chateau valve holes (two on bottom horizontal around 7 and 5 oclock).

Everything else in the bathroom is that "Mediterranean Bronze" now. On hold right now with Moen to see what they can do.

Anybody here of an adapter for this situation? Guess I might be able to cut the stop tube thing to make it fit, but I really would rather not cut the plate.

Thanks!

 

[Terry]

Moen has an adapter to convert old Chateau to Moentrol trim. Posi-temp trim does not work. The stop tube is too large. I'm so glad you have the new cartridge installed. Good work.
Moen also has a handle extension. You may need both parts for that to work.