Another shower valve problem...

Discussion in 'Shower & bathtub Forum & Blog' started by mntentman, May 5, 2009.

  1. mntentman

    mntentman New Member

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    68
    I have some dripping from a tub spout. From what I am learning, it looks like I need to replace the shower valve. This is a Moen setup, about 20 years old. If I am correct, I need the replacement part 1200, which comes with a removal tool, and that this should not be too difficult to replace. Can anyone confirm that I am on the right track, or steer me straight if I am not?

    Thank you very much.

    Attached Files:

  2. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

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    Location:
    New England
    Simple to remove and Moen aren't often in the same sentence! If you're lucky, maybe. In theory, yes, it should come out, but in practice, just search through threads here, you'll find lots of people cussing the things. At that age, you'll probably need the pro version (metal) removal tool as the plastic one will probably break. Moen will probably send you a new cartridge if you call them.

    But, I'm not really familiar, and aren't sure if it is Moen.
  3. mntentman

    mntentman New Member

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    68
    Thanks, Jim, I don't mind buying the pro tool if that's what it takes.

    The bath hardware is Moen, but I can't guarantee the valve is.. you would assume, though, right? :)

    Am I making a logical asumption that the dripping from the tub spout is probably because of a bad valve/cartridge?
  4. SewerRatz

    SewerRatz Illinois Licensed Plumber

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  5. Herk

    Herk Plumber

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    Location:
    S.E. Idaho
    Let me detail some of the problems with removing the cartridges:

    Lime builds up on the brass sleeve around the o-rings. You can't pull past it, particularly because on an old valve the o-rings have become hard as a rock.

    You start with the Moen puller. The core pulls out. At this point, you can switch to the Pasco tool. That has a little spring-loaded button that slides into the cartridge body until it pops into an inlet hole.

    You then try to twist the cartridge and slide it out.

    But the cartridge won't budge - won't twist, won't pull.

    You're stuck.

    Now, you cannot remove the Pasco tool.

    You put more pressure on the tool, and it bends. Now, not only can you not get it out, but when you take out the faucet or valve and cut it to pieces, the bent tool will no longer fit in a cartridge so you have to throw it away.

    [​IMG]
    And, to add insult to injury, the 1225 plastic cartridges are getting older and will actually break in half when you try to pull them with the Moen puller, leaving the bottom half embedded in the faucet body.

    Maybe that's why Moen is now moving away from the 1200 series cartridges to newer-style designs that don't resemble them at all.
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 10, 2009
  6. mntentman

    mntentman New Member

    Messages:
    68
    Well, Herk, I hope that isn't my experience. Moen is sending me a 1225 and I am going to try to put it in... My goal is to be one the folks who don't have trouble doing this...

    [​IMG]
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 10, 2009
  7. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

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    21,806
    Location:
    New England
    You might want to start putting some vinegar on the parts of the valve between the cartridge and the body. Use a small brush, applied periodically might disolve some of the mineral deposits, and the brush may wipe away the partially disolved bits to let the new vinegar work better. Penetrating oil won't do much.
  8. mntentman

    mntentman New Member

    Messages:
    68
    Well. never fails... what should be easiest part of an install turns out to be the hardest.

    I got the old cartridge out, easy as pie. The new cartridge slid right in. But for some reason now I can not get the retaining clip to go back on.

    It appears to me that it is supposed to go through the slot and then in front of the clear plastic pieces on either side. What seems to be the issue is that the cartridge does not slide in quite deep enough for the clip to go in front of it, although it seems to be all the way to the back. I even slid the old one back in too -- since I know for sure the clip fit with that -- and it was the same problem.

    Am I missing something there... or is there a solution?

    Thanks.

    Attached Files:

  9. mntentman

    mntentman New Member

    Messages:
    68
    Never mind... : )

    I didn't do a good job of looking at the old one before I removed it. I realized I had to rotate the cartridge so the plastic wings were at top and bottom, not to the sides. Then the clip slid in.

    Sorry to bother you.... : )
  10. SewerRatz

    SewerRatz Illinois Licensed Plumber

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    No bother, when I saw the picture I did get a chuckle. Glad it all went well for you.
  11. mntentman

    mntentman New Member

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    68
    Thanks, Ron. I don't take to this stuff naturally like most of you guys, so I am a little dense. But I study a problem long enough, I can usually figure it out... : )

    It least this one would have been easy for you guys to figure out if I hadn't been able to do so on my own...

    (We're watching them build the new Twins stadium in downtown Minneapolis... they are really wedging that thing in there between buildings and highways. I told my wife the other day if I was building it, they'd get to the top of the bleachers and find it was a couple of feet over the road...)
  12. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

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    26,253
    Location:
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    Moen

    At least you were smart enough to remove the clip first. Some customers haven't and then when the front of the valve broke off had to replace the valve, by calling the plumber they did not want to call to replace the stem.
  13. mntentman

    mntentman New Member

    Messages:
    68
    I'm sure you guys have seen it all...
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