Another estimating/pricing question

[Master Plumber Mark]

the big city is trying to tell you something

Randi.....this is just some off the cuff advice...

if you can make a fortune in the big city near by ,

WHAT IS THAT TELLING YOU???

why don't you move away from "hooterville"

or " coon- holler "

and get closer to where the real action is???


If you were to put an ad in the "big city"

yellow pages under the heading "water heaters"...

you would probably never look back and some day

be wondering what possessed you to kiss the

butt-ho/es of those builders that claim they are doing you

such a big favor.....

I would rather sit home and wait for a service call

than sell my soul to the devil......

 

[SRdenny]

I work for GC's exclusively. I make money, too. How? I carefully qualify my customers. If all you had between 6 and 12 contractors who worked exclusively with you and actually wanted you to make a profit on every job, would you still be in the the construction side of plumbing? I will admit that employees can be a pain, but you just have to say on top of them and if they don't perform, you let them go.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Cass]

The prices are all relative, to a degree. It is based on the going $$$ rate in your area, the # of plumbers in the area bidding on work, and your ability to explain to the customer why your job will be better than the other guys job. Maybe start making a portfolio of hack work you fix and other stuff like that. Then show them all that stuff when bidding and say you wont get that from me but here is what many of the other plumbers / hackers do. Then stick to your price. Good, competent, conscientious, plumbing has a higher value.

 

[Master Plumber Mark]

prequalifying Jaclkles, and vultures.

I work for GC's exclusively. I make money, too. How? I carefully qualify my customers. If all you had between 6 and 12 contractors who worked exclusively with you and actually wanted you to make a profit on every job, would you still be in the the construction side of plumbing? I will admit that employees can be a pain, but you just have to say on top of them and if they don't perform, you let them go.

It sounds like a great system.... and the contractors actually want you to make money?? what planet is this on??

We used to have contractors that were good, but like
everyone else.... they get old and die, some get ill, some retire and you got to deal with
the new bosses.
Which happened with 4 of ours back in the early 90s.
Then we found out how rare the good ones were when we went looking for more construction work.

The FLAW we discovered the hard way
If you depend on contractors , it is a natural cycle and
eventually you will have to hit the floor running looking for more work. ..someday ....to keep your good employees ....

If you just don't depend on them, and have built up a decent service clientele, you can weather any and all storms...

you might have something tangible to give your
sons someday more than this throbbing headache...
which I would not wish on a dog...


all a company is worth is .....BLUE SKY....
what someone is willing to pay .....

And building contractors have very little or no value....they are not your buddies
and can fly the coop tomorrow.. leaving you high and dry


So the service clientele you have built up over your life is only the real value it is worth....
If someone sees you have a list of 40,000 customers and addresses on your Quick Book Pro
...that has real value......


If you are putting your name on your work for
future service work in the home it is a very wise thing to do.
We still get calls from stickers put on our construction work back in the 70s.



Prequalifying the builders is easy

If you say NO to all of them,
you will be right about %95% of the time.

 

[Cookie]

I just had a plumber leave my house here, I called to have a toilet reset. I just paid him 120.00 bucks, and he wanted 900 to reset it. I am sitting here seriously thinking, I wish I had the power to send him to Iraq (like I was informed I would be going for work for 2 weeks) now, be honest, am I right in thinking he was a tadbit high?? I didn't ask on the phone for a price, cause I know how much you guys hate that. Liquid lunch today.

 

[Rancher]

I just paid him 120.00 bucks, and he wanted 900 to reset it.

So you paid him $120 for an estimate? Cookie, remember have hot chocolate chip cookies ready and smile a lot...

Rancher

 

[Toolaholic]

To be fair to the next person ,who was it?

 

[Cookie]

I believe in being fair to everyone. So, I will keep his name private. But, over the liquid lunch, lol, which was really liquid, lol., my friends and I came up with an idea which I followed thru with no problems. I called the plumber and told him that we have to rethink the cost of it all. The cost of resetting the toilet was a tadbit high. He asked, " how high?" I said, "HIGH." Even applying the 120 to it was still high. He told me, that he wasn't going to lower it. I informed him, I would stop the payment on the check. Which I did. I called the credit union, and after explaining it briefly to them, they did not even charge me the stop-check payment fee. He called me back. He said, " you did stop the payment" I said, " I do what I say." Well, we now discussed the toilet resetting fee. I told him, I would call him back later with my decision.

Now, my question to you, must be obvious. What is fair to him? and, fair to me.

If we don't agree on a cost, I will be more than happy to pack him some cookies in a tin for his trip.

 

[Master Plumber Mark]

cookie you must have a knack, a talent

I just had a plumber leave my house here, I called to have a toilet reset. I just paid him 120.00 bucks, and he wanted 900 to reset it. I am sitting here seriously thinking, I wish I had the power to send him to Iraq (like I was informed I would be going for work for 2 weeks) now, be honest, am I right in thinking he was a tadbit high?? I didn't ask on the phone for a price, cause I know how much you guys hate that. Liquid lunch today.

somehow you must have magic the ability to find every thief out there..
that is something you cant learn,

and it cant be taught either.... its sort of like a gift.....

I remember you telling everyone that you had other plumbers that were worse than this....

where in this country do you live that they treat people this way

and how do you seem to magnetically attract them???


It sounds like you and this plumber had a race to the bank to
see who could stop payment or cash the check the quickest....

it should cost about no more than 150 to re set a toilet if that much
how come it would be as high as 900 dollars is questionable



so how do you find these "plumbers" .are they leaving advertisements on the cork boards
in the local grocery stores., taverns, or 7-11s....
that you peel off his number from the bottom
of the add????

 

[Cookie]

Mark, bad karma, lol.

I have no luck with plumbing, no luck with toilets and no luck with plumbers. If you only knew, you only know what I have said so far about them. I am being polite most of the time,

I really don't know. I can't answer that Mark, if I could I absolutely would. I can't figure it out, lol. For the love of God.

I am nice. I am sweet. I am kind, I use to teach Sunday school, lol. I don't get it. I don't care either, lol. I just want my toilet fixed, and fixed at a price that is normal and reasonable. I have 2 toilets, and mark, neither one works that great. It is a joke. But, I am not alone. My other neighbors are in the same boat more or less. If where I live, a decent, honest, knowledgeable plumber ever moved in this area, he would be sought after beyond belief. I am going to start to call plumbers 100 miles away, lol.

My goal someday, is to have a functional working toilet. It doesn't have to fly, or be fancy, just won't leak. God, it just won't leak.

I bet people wonder, why or what is she here for? WELL, lol. to learn plumbing silly.

I am real REAL tempted to try this myself. I read, and read, and think, and think, gosh, I got to be able to do this. Who knows, might get a couple of girlfriends together, a few bottles of vino, and go for it.



Mark, I can't answer your questions, for I don't have the answers.

Just tell me, what is a normal reasonable price to reset a toilet? I am not asking for discounts cause I make good cookies, or I am cute, lol, just want to be treated fairly; and be honest, and fair myself.

Signing off, as a non-high maintence girl. lol

 

[Rancher]

Now, my question to you, must be obvious. What is fair to him? and, fair to me.

It depends on whether or not the $120 was an estimate to be applied to the total bill, or if the $120 was a down payment.

If it was the price for an estimate, I would shop around for another plumber, or (the master plumbers are going to get hot with this suggestion) find a handy man that will do it for $50.

Rancher

 

[Cookie]

Sheesh, I didn't see you quoted 150 Mark. Well, I have never paid 150 to reset a toilet, YET. Is that the total price? What about his cost for coming out? Is that extra to the 150?

In regards where I got them, MARK, I left my fingers do the walking. From what I hear you guys pay alot for the yellow pages, too. One I got from a co-worker, her son. Nope, I don't read bullentin boards, or tear-offs. OH, one advertises heavily on tv. Alot of bucks for that advertisement.

Oh, about the check. Nope, I only stopped payment after AFTER I talked to him. I told him, since he was unwilling to go down on the 900 that I was going to. Then, aftewards, AFTERWARDS, he called in total disbelief that I would do such a thing.

(He should had been clued in, with me not being blonde, lol. )

I was just stunned at the 900. I was in disbelief at this price. I didn't ask on the phone for an estimate, cause I know..how much you guys hate that. So, I didn't want to insult him, or make him give me an inflated price or whatever. So, I didn't ask. But, I think, no matter what service I need done, I am going to ask on the phone. He was a perfect example why I will do so.

I paid for his estimate, but, who wants to pay 900 to reset a toilet??

Not me, I say, not me...

 

[RioHyde]

Cookie,

While the vast majority of my work is new commercial construction, I have done and still do residential service work on occassion.

Mark is pretty darn close to what I charge to reset a toilet. Normally, my price is $175 for this service...total. Now, I do charge for an estimate ($35) due to wear and tear on my vehicle, time and fuel, but that charge is always applied to the cost of the repair should the customer hire me for the job. And yes, I have had people try to haggle with me over the estimate cost....well tough toenails....my time and vehicle are worth something. They can call someone else....but that's another story.

$900 seems completely outrageous to me. However, I have to ask if resetting the toilet is all the estimate was for. Was there any flange/piping work that was included? Of course, even with a flange replacement/repair $900 seems high to me.

I'm glad you stopped payment on the check. I hesitate to pass judgement on someone while only getting information on this forum, but I swear I'm thinking this guy was definitely out to take you for the longest ride he could. Of course, I could be wrong, but I've seen it happen to my wife with auto mechanics, HVAC service people, etc. Hell, it just recently happened to my 18 year old son at a dealer mechanic. I find it very interesting how quickly these kinds of people change thier tunes once they realize they're dealing with someone who isnt going to bend over and take one for the team.

Cheers!

p/s: I wouldnt even give him a tin of cookies

 

[Master Plumber Mark]

150 is average....unless .....

your big mistake is to call the biggest adds in the YP book... go to the small adds and you will probably do better...

Unless.......
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Now , this might be a prickly subject .....and I do not mean to offend...because I don't know you from Adam as to how you live..


but I have dramatically over-estimated before occasionally in my life due to a few factors....

1 . the house is a filthy pig stye that I would only go back into wearing a haz-mat suit.. and breathing apparatus........and a base ball bat to kill the rats....

2. the people have perhaps 55 cats that have not been out of the house since Clinton left office., so the smell could peel the paint off my tool box.....

3 their are fleas and cockroaches large enough to put
a saddle on and ride.....


or a combination of the three can certainly taint any
relationship with all service people....


I hope that is not the case ,
but I just had to bring it up.

where do you live in the USA anyway??

 

[Cookie]

Well, no pigs in here. No fleas. No nothing but good humans, who live clean, probably TOO clean, and are good, normal, ( i think, lol) hard-working people. I don't have a fleet of animals, real ones, lol, either. I got one cat, that is old as the day is long, a nice cat, sweet, loving, and uses his box, thank you; and 1 dog, I just recently acquired. Also, trained to the hilt. Sorry, Mark, that is absolutely not the reason here. What might be the reason, is the value of the neighborhood. People see big houses, nice houses, nice cars, nice yards, even nice mailboxes, and think...money. What else am I supposed to think? As I said earlier, my neighbors have the same problem. We do have block parties, and we do talk. We play bridge, and always, the same things are said about repairs, plumbing repairs. I do the reporting for the township, school board meetings, etc, new businesses wanting to come into the area, etc, new zoning changes, just report the new business, and again, I hear the same comments. We just got lousy plumbers, and for the most part handymen. Just the way it is, but, it is nothing to do with my home other than, I may MAY look like I have money, lol. BUT, I don't, lol. People can easily overestimate things that way.

The mechanics are great, the electicians, probably most other occupations I can think of, just not with plumbing.

Not trying to be smug here, but, I got a very nice home, and a very nice bathroom when it is working, lol.

175 is more than fair, 150 is better, but, I would not care about 25 bucks. Not that I got money to burn, but, 25 is ok. When, it hitted 900, I got to really step back and say, HEY...that is overboard. That is why I called him, and I informed him, before I stopped payment. I wanted to talk about lowering that price, because I am paying for an estimate, on an estimate which is not fair. Soooo, sorry, but, that is not fair to me, either. Which I told him. He must had called and asked the credit union, I don't care, do it. I told him, I was going to, so I was above board. He wasn't. That is too me, just a tadbit high. How high, I had NO idea, since, I have taken a bath so many times on this bathroom, I don't know what is fair anymore to me. But, I figured, this 900 was out of line. I was stunned, lol.

I called him, and we discussed it further. I told him, to name a price lower than 900. He said, very very weakly, " how is 175?" I told him, better. And, I told him, 120 for an estimate is out of line, I think. So he lowered that to 70. That is ok, too. I might have it fix it, I might not.

I don't think I want to trust him. I might pay him his estimate and leave it go at that. Move on. lol.

I still think I may pull the thing myself. JUST out of spite, lol.

 

[Dunbar Plumbing]

You shouldn't be having this sort of problem being an Angie's List member.


There should be a laundry list of the company's reputation on a case by case basis.


Especially if they know your an AL member.....they should know that they are accountable for what they do and what they say.


There has to be more to these recurring situations......it can't be that consistent.....

it can't be every plumber that walks into the home with the same intention, no way.

 

[Cookie]

Well, a couple of the plumbers were very nice, but, after 30 days, after 60 days, just beyond when they would warrant it, it would start leaking. I really do think, as I have said before, I think it is the floor. I think that is the problem with the toilet. Not that it moves alot, but, the flange is not right with the floor. That is why they have used 2 rings, one ring, 2 rings, and then, a big black long thing which was inserted I think...into the flange opening. The problem is the toilet keeps leaking. Over and over. I might actually pull it up Rug, and then, tear up the floor around the toilet. I might start from scratch. Sometimes, you got to step back to step forward.

The first flange, the second plumber changed. He said the first flange was not right. I don't know what is right, lol. I don't care either, lol

Well, sooner or later, step by step, I will get this right. By then, I will be very knoweable of plumbing, cheers, lol.

Oh, yes Angie's List. But, he did not do the work, and I may not use his services, so, I should not really do anything; they only want you to really make a report when the work is done.

This isn't me at fault Rugged.

 

[Cookie]

There is one additional problem regarding the floor. The heating vent on the floor right next to the toilet. The metal inside of it, flexes in and out. I think...it is doing something to the floor. Is that possible, it could be part of the problem? The ductwork? Or the heat? I did put in a new furnace last year or so.

Just a thought, would appreciate any comments regarding this.

 

[Randyj]

$900... sounds like some kid just got out of plumbing school which he went to and was told he could get rich as a plumber. Amazing how highly some people hold themselves up. I worked a good day yesterday and was happy with $300 and today I worked about the same amount but drove 60 miles and was happy with $400. I don't even advertise in the yellow pages and have a few regular customers. Thank God I don't live in a richy neighborhood where all the service people automatically use exponents to multiply with.... so Cookie, looks like when you want a good plumber you'll just have to fly me up there to take care of the neighborhood for a week at a time. I stumbled into a similar neighborhood which can't find a plumber or decent handyman. Spent a week in a motel, remodeled 3 baths for 3 different customers, did a new tile floor in one.... came home with $1,700 and was ecstatic. I've hit a few home runs and picked up $3500 one week on bid jobs. It's all hit and miss but in general I'm close but still a little cheaper than Mark as I'm just trying to get established. I've been here for 1 year and expect it will take me 3 years then I won't need any advertising except some of them stickers like Mark uses. My son works for a big nationwide service company and they get like $150 or so if they have to pull a toilet and they don't charge one red cent for an estimate. I feel guilty when I get home from a days work because many times I make more in a day than my wife makes in a week. I was eating breakfast at a cafe today when I ran into a plumber with his old truck and tool box... he's still getting $100-125 to install a water heater. I was charging like that when I first started working for the public 5 years ago...now I start at $200 and keep adding on to as high as $400 plus materials.... $120 I'll gladly take 15 minutes to assemble a brand new toilet, hook up a supply line, drop on a wax ring...sit it right down and tighten two bolts... maybe 45 minutes total and I'm gone.... I'll even let you mail me a check... most of my residential customers just leave a key under the floor mat for me.

 

[RioHyde]

I dont know without looking at it, but I cant imagine the ductwork doing something to the floor.....the other way around is much more likely. If you're seeing the ductwork flex then the floor itself is probably putting stress on the duct and that much flex in the floor, whether it be from broken or rotted floor joists, improperly secured or rotted subfloor, or what have you, is a guarantee that eventually the toilet is going to have problems. The most likely scenerio being a leak at the base. At least that's been my experience. Another item: it sounds like your flange isnt at the proper elevation and/or isnt secured properly. Again, either could be the main or at least a contributing cause to the problem.

If you're anywhere near any of the regular contributors to this forum, I urge you to look one of them up. We're all over.....kind of like covering the nation like the dew.

Best wishes!