American Standard Choices

[bossfan61]

I've got a 25 year old toilet that flushes fine 8 out of 10 times. On the 2 bad flushes, the large pool of water just does a slow swirl towards the bottom and just gives up, leaving some of the waste for a second flush. I have two sinks and a bath tub in the same rear area of my condo that flow fine, so I'm guessing this toilet has just stopped working perfectly. Unfortunately, since it's the guest toilet, it has to work perfectly 10 out of 10 times. Although I've tried a few "improve flush performance" troubleshooting tasks, I'm OK with just getting a new toilet.

I've narrowed my search for a new toilet down to 3 American Standard models: the Cadet 3, Champion 4 Max, or the Optum VorMax. I've read some reviews, seen some video flush demos, but I'd really like to get some final feedback here from the experts. As most of you probably know, the Cadet 3 is on sale for $99 at Home Depot.

All feedback is appreciated. Thanks!

 

[Gary Swart]

Most of us on this forum stay away from AS toilets due to quality issues. The toilet you have is totally outdated, but the problem you are having is likely due to something wedged in the trap. (toilets have their own built in trap) Of course, even if working perfectly, it is a huge water waster. It is likely 3.5 gallons per flush whereas the better toilets today use about 1 gallon. The cheap toilets at discount centers are what are termed "builder grade". These are typically installed in spec homes because they are cheap and fit the basic requirement of a toilet. They seldom provide satisfactory service and are often replace soon after the house is sold. The brand that many of us prefer is Toto. There is a wide variety available, all of which perform well. My opinion, FWIW, is not to shop for a cheap toilet regardless of brand. A toilet should last a lifetime, so shop for quality first.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Reach4]

There have been a lot of positive comments on Cadet 3 as being compact and flushing well.

 

[SteveW]

I would echo what Gary says above. You say you want a guest toilet that works 10 out of 10 times.
Get a Toto.
Throw away your plunger.
Move on with your life.

 

[Wallijonn]

I'm surprised your bathtub and sink flow fine; I usually find that they slow down due to hair.

Careful buying toilets from Home Depot, Lowe's, Costco, etc. & et. al. Chances are even that they may be seconds or thirds and so AS has lowered the price on them. It's probably better to pay more at a reputable plumbing house since they will probably only sell you firsts.

First thing to try is to plunge the toilet even though it is not stuffed. Next would be to snake it even though it is not stuffed. It could be that you have a partial stoppage. Third would be to pour some CLR, Lime-Away or ZEP down the tank flapper in case their is mineral buildup slowing the drainage of water.

But it would probably be best to replace an older toilet that spends more than 1.28gpf of water.

 

[bossfan61]

Thanks for the excellent feedback. I've read many great things about Toto toilets and I will now consider them, too.

I'm not exactly clear on why to buy from a plumbing store as opposed to a Home Depot or Lowes. I don't mind doing so; I just want to understand why. Aren't these the same models at both locations? Isn't a Toto Drake model #xxx at HD/Lowes the same exact toilet as the Toto Drake model #xxx at a plumbing store?

 

[Plumbs Away]

I can't speak on the 1.28 GPF Cadet 3 because I have no experience with it. The 1.6 GPF version, however, is excellent, as is the Champion 4. So is the Vormax Optum. I have one and I have to say that if I had it to do over again, I don't know that I would spend the extra money, given that the flush valve repair parts are proprietary. The repair parts for the Cadet 3 and Champion 4 can be found almost anywhere. All three of these American Standards use a "regular" Fluidmaster fill valve. The Cadet 3 will function fine with any aftermarket 3" flapper and the Champion 4 has a replaceable seal for the flapper that is not difficult to find should you need it.

As for the big box stores and their name brand plumbing fixtures, I get the impression that a fair comparison is to say it's like going to an outlet store. The only negative experience I ever had in that regard was bad glazing on a Cadet 3 that I bought at Lowe's but I caught it before I left the store, so it didn't become an "issue."

 

[Wallijonn]

Chances are that you would have to order the Toto at HD since they probably don't have them on display.

Many people have had problems with big store AS toilets - from not being level in all planes, cracked bowls, bad bowls, etc. Maybe their QC has gotten better now that AS has been taken over.

The reality is that the HD AS toilets have their own SKU number right on the box. Chances are that HD has contracted for "X" units at "Y" dollars, so AS may skimp on the QC to maximize profit/profit return.The ADA height toilets usually flush a little better than regular height, but see if the ADA height is too height for you.

http://www.homerepairtutor.com/american-standard-cadet-3/

 

[Queen50]

We have had 3 Champion 4's, two elongated right height and one standard round, ranging in age from 2 to 5 years. No problem with any of them.

 

[bossfan61]

We have had 3 Champion 4's, two elongated right height and one standard round, ranging in age from 2 to 5 years. No problem with any of them.

Did you get those at Home Depot/Lowes, or from a plumbing store?

 

[Queen50]

Home Depot. Purchased 3 AS toilets in 3 different years and have had no problems with any of them. No plunging ever. From reading here, I guess I was lucky.