American Standard Champion toilet Review and comments. Rated #1 by Consumer Reports

Discussion in 'Toilet Forum discussions' started by Reader Review, Jan 2, 2006.

  1. Reader Review

    Reader Review Comments by readers

    I have now that I found this site a champion toilet. Didn’t even know what it was until I run across this site. It was problematic ever since we bought the house a few years ago. It was preinstalled in the house. I don’t mind the noise as it is great to not have to plunge as with so many of the new fangled low flow units. I made a few adjustments to it at first and seemed to work nicely. Now It has began to run on and on draining the tank in only a few hours. Taking it a apart and finding the huge hole (4” or whatever it is) was a bit of a shock when no parts are available and even a net search it is nearly impossible to find anything. After taking the tank off and not having parts for repair I made a few adjustments that may be a temporary fix and some of you may find helpful. The little red/orange seal as others have mentioned had developed blisters. I removed the seal dried everything off and pierced the blisters with the point of a small pair of scissors. I squeezed the water out and put a second hole in the blister to help alleviate re-expansion with water. I reseated the seal on the plunger/piston. I coated the whole thing with petroleum jelly and re-assembled the toilet. The petro jelly also will help disperse water and seal the holes in the blisters. I also inverted the washer so the deformation of the rubber is opposite what it was before helping the seal to contact its mating point and form a proper seal. I would think the petro jelly would assist in keeping this seal in place for those who are having problems with it slipping off. Aslo the seal has a pretty tight fit in the groove of the plunger, make sure it is well seated. (as I mis-seated it a couple times before I got it right). This was about 24 hours ago and I have not lost one drip of water through the valve yet. I am not sure how long this will hold up but maybe until I can get some new parts located. The other problem is the huge sponge washer/seal from the tank to bowl seal. Can’t find one of those either.
    M. Miller
    Colorado
  2. Reader Review

    Reader Review Comments by readers

    I have now that I found this site a champion toilet. Didn’t even know what it was until I run across this site. It was problematic ever since we bought the house a few years ago. It was preinstalled in the house. I don’t mind the noise as it is great to not have to plunge as with so many of the new fangled low flow units. I made a few adjustments to it at first and seemed to work nicely. Now It has began to run on and on draining the tank in only a few hours. Taking it a apart and finding the huge hole (4†or whatever it is) was a bit of a shock when no parts are available and even a net search it is nearly impossible to find anything. After taking the tank off and not having parts for repair I made a few adjustments that may be a temporary fix and some of you may find helpful. The little red/orange seal as others have mentioned had developed blisters. I removed the seal dried everything off and pierced the blisters with the point of a small pair of scissors. I squeezed the water out and put a second hole in the blister to help alleviate re-expansion with water. I reseated the seal on the plunger/piston. I coated the whole thing with petroleum jelly and re-assembled the toilet. The petro jelly also will help disperse water and seal the holes in the blisters. I also inverted the washer so the deformation of the rubber is opposite what it was before helping the seal to contact its mating point and form a proper seal. I would think the petro jelly would assist in keeping this seal in place for those who are having problems with it slipping off. Aslo the seal has a pretty tight fit in the groove of the plunger, make sure it is well seated. (as I mis-seated it a couple times before I got it right). This was about 24 hours ago and I have not lost one drip of water through the valve yet. I am not sure how long this will hold up but maybe until I can get some new parts located. The other problem is the huge sponge washer/seal from the tank to bowl seal. Can’t find one of those either.
    M. Miller
    Colorado
  3. Reader Review

    Reader Review Comments by readers

    also bought two of these Tiolets last year, one that is higher for older people and an average size one. The one in my bathroom has started leaking out water also, water bill went up to over fifty dollars, I am a widow on Social Secirity and cannot afford to replace these rejects, had gone by all the hype on the commercials and believed them. A bunch of Bull is what they tell you, oh they flush better but we have to lean down and turn the water on when we use the tiolet then turn it off. My daughter & I are thinking on doing what the one review said GLUE that gasket down!! I keeps trying to go down with the flush. Next time if I can afford it there won't be one of these left in my home. thank goodness the other one hasn't started leaking yet, but it is in the master bathroom where my grandson and his wife use it. Had to have a new sewer line put in then the tiolet started this. Shirley
  4. Reader Review

    Reader Review Comments by readers

    If you have the old style flush valve on the left, call American Standard Tech Support and they will send out the new flush valve on the right.

    [​IMG]
  5. ImpliedConsent

    ImpliedConsent New Member

    Messages:
    17
    Location:
    GA United States
    Confirmed. My Champion was installed early 2005 (4260). A.S. is sending out the refit kit gratis.
  6. dpete3

    dpete3 New Member

    Messages:
    2
    Location:
    Danville, PA
    What a pile of junk this toilet has been. That damn seal leaks shortly after being replaced. I didn't know this was a problem with AS design until I stumbled on this forum. Like everyone else on here the tank never seated onto the toilet, I was afraid to tighten it any more for fear of breaking it. I stuffed a rolled up hun k of cardboard behind the tank to give it some support, Great way of having to fix things. I just contacted AS to see what they will do about the old style valve that I have. I have also filled out the information on the pending class action lawsuit. I'm building a new house and rest assured there will be NO AS products in it at all.:mad::mad::mad:
  7. ImpliedConsent

    ImpliedConsent New Member

    Messages:
    17
    Location:
    GA United States
    Installed the new flush valve today. Went in as expected, no issues. The flushing system sounds better (no more "broken clunk" feel). I'll be able to put it to the test after my 2 cups of coffee tomorrow morning. :D

    BTW, that tank seats just right on the toilet. It's not fully seated until the front and rear ribs touch. Don't use a screwdriver on the screw in the tank, use a 1/2" long socket from underneath.


    **EDIT** - put the Champ through the real world paces this morning. It's still "The Champ" and does what's intended.
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2010
  8. Reader Review

    Reader Review Comments by readers

    We have four American Standard Champion toilets purchased and user installed in 2004. We've had three flush valve problems with the single one-piece toilet, one involving a seal leak and two involving broken parts. I called American Standard. They sent the new grey replacement flush valves for all four of our Champion toilets free of charge. I installed the replacement flush valve for the one-piece toilet which was easy since replacement does not require removing the tank. For the remaining three toilets that have model 4260 tanks, tank removal will be needed. I will do that one-by-one as the other toilets develop flush valve issues. The new flush valves get rid of the "clunk" issue during flushes. The blue seals for the new flush valves are considerably thicker than the red seals for the old flush valve assemblies. I am hoping that American Standard gets the message that parts such as seals for the new flush valves should be made available at Lowe's and The Home Depot.

    Regards,

    Allan R
    Cumming, GA
  9. slchoat

    slchoat New Member

    Messages:
    1
    Location:
    Idabel, Ok
    New Parts Installed

    We had the new parts that Champion mailed to us yesterday, works fine now, also my grandson's father that installed this part advised that Walmarts has the exact same parts they are Universal and work. He said that they just cost $7.00.
  10. Reader Review

    Reader Review Comments by readers


    Do Not Buy an American Standard Champion Toilet!! The flush valve is poorly designed and leaks. American Standard's Customer Service will lie to you and tell you that very few people have complained about the toilet, yet they have a system for sending out new seals (which only work for a couple of weeks).
    Bad company!!
    Rchas
  11. RBrown

    RBrown New Member

    Messages:
    10
    Location:
    West Virginia
    I just had to replace the gasket on my Champion (with a new style flush valve). I purchased a Korky red gasket from Lowe's for about $5 and fixed it my self. I had blisters on my blue AS gasket like everyone else which caused the tank to keep topping itself off as Dog says. I like my Champion. It is comfortable and flushes well, but it hasn't been dependable.
  12. polecat702

    polecat702 New Member

    Messages:
    1
    Location:
    Las Vegas
    I installed the new flush valve and noticed a plastic insert thats coming apart in the base where the tank connects to the base. Is this piece supposed to be in there, or should it have been removed, when the toilet was installed? Looking at my reciept we've had this thing sence 2003, and it's never worked as all the hype. Now with the new flush valve it's worse than before.
  13. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    14,799
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    nce 2003, and it's never worked as all the hype. Now with the new flush valve it's worse than before.

    The plastic insert is supposed to be in there.

    The first Champion I installed had that too. I've always wondered when that thin plastic was going to start disintegrating when you started to introduce chlorinated water.

    1. To become reduced to components, fragments, or particles.
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2014
  14. montreal

    montreal New Member

    Messages:
    5
    Location:
    montreal, QC
    Thanks Gary for your comment.

    I guess AS can't make your message any clearer, on the top of the FluidMaster fill valve is engraved a warning against using chlorine bleach cleaners in the tank.

    I used those pucks for about 10 years in my old Cadet without any leaks or malfunctions.

    And when my recent toxic gas attack occurred in the dried out Cadet tank, it was the plastic fill valve casing which took the hit much harder than the other plastic and rubber parts.

    In any case, I accept that these pucks do indeed erode the tank components.

    Too bad, since as a bowl cleaning aid, they work marvelously.

    After nearly 3 weeks of use, my new Champion 4 one piece is holding up. Occasionally need to flush twice for solid matter, but that's the only drawback noted so far.
  15. Scott9393

    Scott9393 New Member

    Messages:
    1
    Location:
    New Jersey
    I have an American Standard Champion toilet (tank 4260, from 2004) and it is leaking from one of the tank-to-bowl bolts. Cannot find any details on what to use for a replacement washer for the bolt (or complete bolt/washer/nut). Home Depot was no help - the Fluidmaster tank-to-bowl bolt kits do not indicate any compatibility with any toilet makes/models/etc. The existing bolt or nut is rusting (steel?!!) so I'm concerned about tightening it and having it completely fail. Any suggestions?
  16. wjcandee

    wjcandee Wise One

    Messages:
    1,771
    Location:
    New York, NY
    The official AS complete tank to bowl set including the big gasket for the flush valve: 738756-0070A, but it sucks that you would have to pay $14 when only one washer is bad. However, the repair parts diagram only shows this kit; nothing seems to come separately.

    That said, I seem to recall a plumber on here saying that he tosses the AS tank to bowl set because it sucks and installs the toilet with a good Wolverine Brass tank-to-bowl set. You can't buy that, but it suggests that a good-quality brass tank-to-bowl set would work. If you get the official parts online, that's certainly easy, but I would consult a plumbing supply place about a good solid tank-to-bowl set that would fit this toilet (preferably a double-nut setup where you attach the bolt to the tank with one nut and the assembly to the base with another. [ E.g. in tank goes bolt head and rubber washer, on other side of tank goes metal washer and nut, then insert same into hole in base, and attach rubber washer, metal washer and second nut.]_Of course, if I recall, the crappy design of this toilet makes the nut very hard to access, so you may need to be sure that you have a long socket that will fit the nut.

    Sorry can't be more help. I'm sure one of the pros will have more ideas.
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 14, 2012
  17. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    21,824
    Location:
    New England
    Use any brass or SS tank bolt set. Plain or plated steel will rust and eventually leak.
  18. wjcandee

    wjcandee Wise One

    Messages:
    1,771
    Location:
    New York, NY
    Thanks, Jim, for the definitive answer. I think he probably doesn't want one with the wing-nuts, though, right, because of the exceptionally-deep recess where the bolts tie through the base; need something you can get a deep socket on. Maybe something like the Lasco 04-3675, which has solid brass bolts and washers, and heavy rubber washers. Scott9393, just google that and you'll see what we're talking about. Unfortunately, I didn't see anything of quality at the HD web site; it's all galvanized or just brass-plated or has those wing nuts that probably won't work for you.

    Also, some tips if you haven't done this before: (1) when you have the tank off, take some fine sandpaper and lightly sand the inside of the tank next to the bolt holes and even a little into the bolt holes. This will give you a nice smooth surface for the rubber washer to seal against [if you look at Jamie Love's primer on how to install a toilet, he does this on every installation]; (2) when you remount the tank, getting it stable and solid requires patience; the proper way to do it (and sometimes to redo it a few times until it's right) is to mount the tank and hold it exactly level and square with one hand (or have a helper do that), while you twist a couple of turns on one bolt, then the other bolt, then the first bolt, then the other bolt, back and forth really slowly, until you see the tank make the contact described in the instructions (which you can find here: Champion Installation Instructions ) Everyone tells you not to overtighten. What this means is don't tighten once you see the tank make contact; it should simultaneously contact the mounting ribs shown in the diagram; if it's tilted, then release a little, straighten, and tighten again. Once china hits china, stop. Jim recommends putting a piece of paper in there and when the tank squeezes the paper, stop. But don't freak out if you're tightening and it takes a long time for the contact to be made; seems like lots of DIY-ers give up too soon and then complain about tank wobble. You haven't "overtightened" until china has contacted china, but you don't want to tighten after any china contact has been made. That said, be vigilant for the tank to touch one rib before the other -- you don't want to be watching one spot and crack it because another spot has made contact; it takes some care to get it all to touch about the same time. (3) When you're doing a double-nut installation, once again, it goes: rubber washer under bolt head inside of tank (NO metal washer in there; causes leaks), then metal washer and nut on outside of tank, then place tank on bowl, then under bowl goes rubber washer, metal washer and second nut.

    Hope this helps.
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2012
  19. ballvalve

    ballvalve General Engineering Contractor

    Messages:
    3,261
    Location:
    northfork, california
  20. wjcandee

    wjcandee Wise One

    Messages:
    1,771
    Location:
    New York, NY
    Maybe not so good on them. As I noted in a different thread, the only thing AS moved back to the US was the absolute minimum number of models necessary to be able to keep getting government contracts with stimulus money. Totally self-serving and hypocritical. Note that: (1) the only color made in the US is White, which is what the gov't contracts call for; (2) they're only making the toilet that public works projects want: the Cadet and the flushometer bowl, and a couple of gov't-suitable sinks; (3) they still sell the exact same thing without the US in the model number, hecho en Mexico, along with ALL the non-white Cadet 3s; (4) the trim and guts are all made elsewhere and only the china is made in the USA, etc.

    It's waving the flag and suggesting that they are making more here than they do. They are only making as much here as is necessary to meet the domestic-contents requirements of the Stimulus Bill. When those funds get spent, almost assuredly this US manufacturing will cease. Every little bit helps, but frankly I think it's evil for them to suggest that they are doing this for any reason other than that they are being forced to, so that they don't lose the business to Toto, which, ironically, makes a broader line of products in the US. (Ever go to the bathroom at the busiest airport in the world (Atlanta)? Guess whose domestically-made toilets and urinals are in every renovated section.)
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2012
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