American Standard Champion toilet Review and comments. Rated #1 by Consumer Reports

Discussion in 'Toilet Forum discussions' started by Reader Review, Jan 2, 2006.

  1. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    14,915
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    We still have the service call on an American Standard we installed two weeks ago.

    I'm always amazed at how many service calls American Standard generates for us, we hardly ever sell them, and yet they make up most of the call backs.
  2. FloridaOrange

    FloridaOrange Plumbing Designer

    Messages:
    1,317
    Location:
    SW Florida
    What went wrong with it after only two weeks?
    I wonder if the sales rep vetted the one he gave me so I wouldn't find any problems with it...
  3. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    14,915
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    On this one, leaks between tank and bowl.

    Pretty much we expect problems on 20% of the boxes we open.
    Matt, you've had only one experience.
    We have many.
    That's why most plumbers I run into don't install American Standard.
    They just laugh when I ask, and then say "No!"

    But you installed one toilet.
    I sell a few thousand toilets a year.
    Hardly any of those are American Standard.
    Thank God!
    After a while, you start cringing when someone wants American Standard, you can just feel the service call coming to bite you.
  4. FloridaOrange

    FloridaOrange Plumbing Designer

    Messages:
    1,317
    Location:
    SW Florida
    Thanks for the info. I realize I only have the one to compare, that's why I like to know. I don't see or ever hear about the hundreds that I specify in a given year.

    I would spec Toto's more if they had them locally accessible. I still have and use the coffee cup given to me by the only time I've ever met a Toto rep. My mentor was flown up to the factory in Alabama(?) and was very impressed.
  5. dluke@geeklair.net

    dluke@geeklair.net New Member

    Messages:
    2
    Location:
    Lansing, MI
    ... but it's not bad enough to warrant a 'Not Recommended' label? (http://www.terrylove.com/crtoilet.htm)

    I guess I will start calling around to see if someone nearby can order two Totos for me.

    Big thanks to everyone here for sharing their knowledge/experience!
  6. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    14,915
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    I don't ever recall contacting a designer about problems with fixtures before,
    That would be a first.

    Does a plumber even care who the designer is?

    You other plumbers out there.
    Have you ever called up an architect or designer and given them a heads up on their specifications?

    If I don't like the spec, I just change it.
    And I certainly don't write reports on how the job went to the designer.

    And by the way, I did have lunch bought for me one day.
    Well, Kohler bought me lunch too.
    That's two lunches.
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2009
  7. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    21,932
    Location:
    New England
    While it is always better to buy a fragile porcelain appliance locally, I've had acceptable results buying 4 over the internet. If you go this route, allow enough time in case something does go wrong so it can be replaced and not affect your schedule. On one, it took longer than they said to arrive...it turned out it was broken along the way, and they never tried to deliver it...regardless whether you buy it locally or have it delivered, you should open and check for damage when you get it.
  8. FloridaOrange

    FloridaOrange Plumbing Designer

    Messages:
    1,317
    Location:
    SW Florida
    We would typically hear about it from the owner. We do get feedback on some jobs but usually within a few months, never after a year. I'm working on my 6th dialysis center for the year, same Architect and GC but never the same plumber. I really wish a couple of them were able to do repeats and highly recommended one of them to do repeats but the owners don't listen to us too much. Then they complain when the plumber does the job "his way" and are unhappy with "his way".

    The last plumber ran all the water under the slab. In CPVC. :mad:
    He was pissed that he had to redo 70% of the water piping. In this economy, some of the plumbing contractors would be happy to go to the other side of the state for another choice job, especially since the first has the steepest learning curve.
  9. FloridaOrange

    FloridaOrange Plumbing Designer

    Messages:
    1,317
    Location:
    SW Florida

    The plumbing contractors have to turn in submittals for all equipment and fixtures they intend to use for approval by the owner, the architect and finally by the engineers.
  10. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    14,915
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    That's how I change them.
    Submittal.
    It works the same here.

    I guess in Florida things haven't changed much.

    Here in Seattle, we use the good products.

    Seatac airport uses TOTO in their new projects.
    The crew down there says those are their trouble free units.

    Emerald Queen Casino has TOTO in their new digs.

    And many new projects in the high rises have been going TOTO.

    Macy's Lynnwood went with American Standard on their new stuff, but it's plugging up all the time. Too bad for Macy's.

    Their old bathrooms used American Standard too.
    Drop the paper in the front of the bowl, and it doesn't go anywhere.
    How strange is that?
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2009
  11. FloridaOrange

    FloridaOrange Plumbing Designer

    Messages:
    1,317
    Location:
    SW Florida
    I've spec'd Toto on 3 jobs in the last year or so, none have gone in. I'm still much happier with AS than with some of the other brands.
  12. BonnieC

    BonnieC New Member

    Messages:
    3
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Just wanna say thanks for the explanation.

    I can see on my own toilet that this seems to be working great. I don't totally understand it, but I will keep this in mind. And the toilet works perfectly now, which is the main thing.
  13. Reader Review

    Reader Review Comments by readers

    Toilet Review, Champion

    American Standard should be put out of business. I have two of their "Champion" toilets that I had installed three years ago and the only thing they are champions at is clogging and being almost impossible to unclog.

    I managed to get their "customer service" department on the line when I called their 800 # shortly after these pieces of junk were installed and their suggestion was, they really said this, "Take a wire coat hanger, untwist it and go under the rim with the hook of the hanger and stick into the holes to make sure none of them are closed."

    I did this and it didn't help at all, which I expected, since the problem never appeared to be the flow of water out of the tank and into the bowl but inability built into this product to get solid waste down the drain and past whatever impediment was clearly engineered into this health hazard of a toilet.
    A terrible product made by a terrible company with a clear intent, judging from my experience with customer service, to take money and provide nothing of value in return. Right now, I avoid using these two toilets and use a third in our basement. Neither it nor the two toilets I replaced with these pieces of junk ever had this problem.

    The American Standard toilets, when used, clog at least 60 per cent of the time and are so poorly designed that to remove the clog usually requires a minimum of plunging whichever of the toilets has clogged 30 or 40 times and an additional 6 to 10 flushes before the clog can be cleared.

    I will never, never, never again buy anything made by American Standard, will always recommend against there products to anyone mentioning bathroom remodeling (I am a realtor and clients often ask advice about remodeling projects) and hope that anyone reading this would follow suit.
    R. Wood
  14. pmanca

    pmanca New Member

    Messages:
    1
    Location:
    Miami
    Champion 2002 Elongated


    I have a AS Champion 2002 Elongated two piece toilet and I was planning to install a S300/Jasmine (Elongated). The compatibility charts and schematics are not very clear, but you did not seem to have any problems. Did you have to do any custom work? Thx, P.-
  15. Reader Review

    Reader Review Comments by readers

    4260

    Hi Guys,
    Ive got the flush valve for this champion toilet,
    i seen where it was building calcium,
    it was the tower on the left side
    not the flush tower,
    I saw all this calciium under the grey colored tower with the rubber donut on it,
    It seems like the tower worked better,
    and the water didnt go down when all this calcium came out of the fill tower on the left of tank,
    can you get a fill tower on warranty,
    heres my number off toilet, 4260,
    I about give up on this thing,
    I dont know where the water is going?
    theres no bubbling in the tank,and I cant see anything going in the bowl,
    it goes down really slow and then compensates filling up again about every 20 min's,
    K Conway
  16. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    21,932
    Location:
    New England
    Put some food coloring in the tank. Shut off the water supply. The tank will empty, and you'll have colored water in the bowl 999 times out of a thousand. Choices are repair or replace...ideally, not with another AS product!
  17. Reader Review

    Reader Review Comments by readers

    American Standard Champion

    We have continually experienced one problem after another with the American Standard Champion toilet that we purchased from Lowes. There are no replacement parts available at Lowes or elsewhere. The problem is the whole flush mechanism. We could tolerate the noise if the end result was a good, clean flush with no leaking. However, the valve does not reseat after a flush, causing leaking and constantly running water. The leaking is enough to produce a moldy odor in the bathroom that is causing health problems in those with breathing irregularities. The refill tube does not stay in place and after a flush sprays water outside the commode onto the floor and walls.
    Keeping the humidity low is impossible, when with every flush the toilet distributes water all over the bathroom. The metal grid which holds the drop ceiling in place has begun to rust again after being repainted once since installing this toilet. The bathroom with the American Standard Champion is the only one of three bathrooms that has this problem. No one has been able to repair this monstrocity though many have tried.The best anyone can do is by rigging makeshift repairs which are very temporary if they ever work at all. We are elderly with many health problems and should not be stuck with this problem. We need a whole new flushing mechanism. We bought this model because the advertising convinced us this was the perfect toilet. Boy! were we disappointed when immediately after installation the problems began. The cost of the Champion was so much more than we could have paid for a toilet with less expense and expectations. When the installation of a product causes adverse health problems the manufacturer should be responsible for making things right . The warranty so far has been useless. American Standard needs to put their money where their mouth is by standing behind their warranty. Obviously, ours is not an isolated problem but appears to be the norm. Have we been the victims of false advertising or what?
    G. Stone
  18. Reader Review

    Reader Review Comments by readers

    We purchased 3 AS Champion Toilets in 2005 at Home Depot while doing some home remodeling. All were installed by a licensed plumber to replace older toilets that used more water per flush and were leaking.

    Although the Champion units used much less water and we had far fewer clogs; these units have not been all we hoped for.

    For starters, the "flush tower" system is REALLY loud. They make a distinctive "clunk" noise that usually startles guests in our home. The other issue is the "flush tower" units are made of cheap plastic and are prone to breaking. While AS provides a 10 year warranty for the parts; it's still expensive paying a plumber to show up every couple of years to complete a "warranty" part replacement.

    So far, we have been fortunate that the 3 units we purchased have not had issues with leaks others have experienced. However, given the problems with the "flush tower" design and/or quality, I would not recommend these units to someone considering buying a new toilet.
    B. Rhodes

    [​IMG]
    Made in Mexico
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2010
  19. thdang

    thdang New Member

    Messages:
    2
    Location:
    Tempe, AZ
    Converting AS to Universal Toilet

    Thanks for your tips. I will try again. Something just popped up in my mind: Do you think it is possible to convert the AS flushing system into the Universal one? I do not see the AS flushing system available in any stores. That make me thinking to put the universal (conventional flapper type) in the AS tank but the flush opening size concerns me for the AS flush opening size might be larger? I do not want to waste the whole AS toilet system but not sure if it works. Help me to brainstorm to fix this issue in a economic way, thanks.
  20. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    14,915
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    If you have the old flush tower, just call support, and they will send you the conversion kit for free.

    [​IMG]
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2011
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