American Standard Champion 4 toilet review and pictures

Discussion in 'Toilet Forum discussions' started by Reader Review, Mar 11, 2008.

  1. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,412
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    I'm personally experience a good percentage of returns on American Standard toilets.

    Some of the product they box up and ship, should have never been installed.
    When you compare their product to other brands, it's down the list quite a ways.
    I don't run into plumbers installing these things, they have to make a profit with their labor.
    It's homeowners.

    I get more complaints with American Standard then with the other brands.
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2014
  2. DIY Duder

    DIY Duder New Member

    Messages:
    15
    Location:
    Chicago
    Well I'm a couple weeks in and still no problems with my Champion 4 either. But for me that's not really the point. It's not weither or not you route the gasket smaller lol, and I'm sure people get the ribs to touch all the time without the bowl/tank cracking. But there have been people who have broke them. Also the popper seal it sounds like will be lasting 1-3 years, and who know's about the flush valve itself. But none of that is the point, why would I buy another Champion KNOWING I can get something for just 30-40 bucks more that has NONE of these problems or risks? And I can't just go to HD and get another seal...? (you can with the drake) Not to mention the time and adjustments it takes to make sure the tank is stright before you start tightining it. I don't hate the toilet. It's a piece of porclin! lol I just don't know why AS would make all there costomers deal with these issues when they don't have to.

    I know some people it sounds like just want to complain, and to me thats what a lot of it sounds like. It's not that loud, in fact its pretty quiet. The clunk? What clunk? The popper falling back in place? Most all toilets I've herd have that clunk. This one's no different. So it's an ok toilet I just don't get why we have to deal with these issues. Like you said "it escapes you". It should. It's stupid. What if your plumer told you about any gasket whatsoever "When it feels tight, JUST CRANK IT DOWN TIGHTER TILL YOUR SCARED IT WILL BREAK! LOL :D That gasket was my biggest complaint. If you did bust the tank are they going to give you another? Why should you take that risk at all? That's my fealing.

    PS if anything happens to the flush valve you'll have to go through that again.
  3. BonnieC

    BonnieC New Member

    Messages:
    3
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Strange problem with low tank level

    Can someone help with this problem? I have a Champion 4 toilet with a strange behavior. When flushed, the tank fills properly and then shuts off when full, and the water is at the proper level on the overflow tube. Then, very slowly the water leaks into the bowl but only until the level is about 2 inches below the top of the overflow tube in the tank. Then it stops leaking into the bowl. This leaves enough water to flush the toilet but not enough to get a *good* flush when needed.

    When I began working on fixing this toilet, it was just plain leaking into the bowl continuously. I've changed the tank/bowl gasket, and the whole flapper assembly. This toilet is about 2 years old, and initially worked properly.
  4. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    27,230
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    waer level

    Now that you have wasted time and money fixing things which were not broken, pull the small refill tube, (from the valve to the overflow pipe), out of the overflow pipe and either secure it above the pipe, or cut it off so it only sticks into the pipe an inch or so, (but then make sure it is secured so it cannot pop out and spray water everywhere).
  5. BonnieC

    BonnieC New Member

    Messages:
    3
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Can you explain to me why this affects the balance

    of the water levels between the tank and the bowl? I'd like to understand.
  6. dluke@geeklair.net

    dluke@geeklair.net New Member

    Messages:
    2
    Location:
    Lansing, MI
    I'm in a similar situation. Both of the big box stores are selling the Champion 4 for $188 right now,
    I want to replace 2 toilets in my house (old ones that flush well, but the glaze has worn off of the bowls and so are hard to keep clean). I don't think I can fit two toilets in my car, though - so that means ~4 hours of driving to pick up two totos (or renting a truck).

    I'm a bit confused that the Champion 4 is on the toilet list (http://www.terrylove.com/crtoilet.htm), I don't see any of the other ones as available from a big box store near me. I'm not a professional, and don't really mind if the install is going to take me extra time, but obviously don't want to be constantly having to replace seals to keep the toilet from running.
    Last edited by a moderator: May 31, 2014
  7. FloridaOrange

    FloridaOrange Plumbing Designer

    Messages:
    1,317
    Location:
    SW Florida
    My Champion 4 is too new to make any comments about the longevity of the seal but I do like it so far. Flushes great.

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 15, 2014
  8. Runs with bison

    Runs with bison Member

    Messages:
    897
    Location:
    Midwest
    Bonnie,

    I believe what HJ is saying is that if the small overfill tube is down inside the overflow pipe the tank will siphon into the overfill tube until the tank level is close to that of the tube outlet. That's why some toilets have a clip to keep the tube pointed down at/but above the overfill tube opening.
  9. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    27,230
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    water levels

    The water level in the tank is governed by the adjustment on the fill valve. The water level in the bowl is predetermined by the construction of the toilet. There is very little relationship between them. HOWEVER, if there is something defective with the bowl so it will lose water, AND the tank is also defective so it loses water, that water will keep the defective bowl filled, UNTIL you repair the tank problem, and then the problem with the bowl losing water will "appear", seemingly suddenly.
  10. needatoilet

    needatoilet New Member

    Messages:
    1
    Location:
    ca
    How to check date?

    A recent post said to make some Champions being sold are not most current version and recommended checking box for manufacture date. I was at a big bos store today and tried to do that, but could not find a date on the box. Can anyone tell me where to look for the manufacture date?
  11. Reader Review

    Reader Review Comments by readers

    American Standard Champion headed to the dump

    I'm tired of replacing seals on the 4" flapper. To the dump this American Standard Champion 4 goes.
    Way too much trouble with leaking flappers.

    This time I'm going with a toilet made in the USA, a TOTO Ultramax.
    [​IMG]
    A new American Standard Champion headed to the recycle dump.

    Frustrated homeowner.
    Seattle WA
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 23, 2010
  12. Elton Noway

    Elton Noway New Member

    Messages:
    21
    Location:
    North Carolina
    Purchased mine from Home Depot. Look for something that looks like a packing or shipping label. It will not be any part of the fluff / colorful advertising labels as those are printed in mass.

    [​IMG]

    Then look for any small print that resembles dthe date and/or time. Be aware the date time format may differ. (e.g. 25OCT09 6:04PM or maybe 102509 18:04 )

    [​IMG]
  13. maddog

    maddog Engineer

    Messages:
    129
    Location:
    near San Jose, CA.
    Picked up one of these at Lowe's today. I'm willing to bet it lasts a lot longer than the American Standard blue pos seal. The original blue seal blistered and leaked in about a year - and no chlorine tablets in the tank ....

    Attached Files:

  14. The red ones are "supposed" to be chemical resistant. I just tell customers to wait around 6 months, tell them it's leaking and get them ahead of time so they have it ready to go when they do blister.

    You can also flip those seals over to get more time out of them. In the same fashion they used to do to faucet seat washers.
  15. Geobrick

    Geobrick New Member

    Messages:
    29
    Location:
    California
    A Review of the "Champion 4" along with a Fix to the Poor Bowl Fill Problem

    First I'll cover the bowl fill problem resolution.

    I discovered this fix while discussing this issue in a separate thread started by “larrymcg” but I think it will help more people here.

    If you have a Champion 4 toilet and you think the bowl is not filling completely after a flush, check for one of these inside the fill tube.

    [​IMG]

    It’s a flow restrictor and it was inside the rubber fill tube where it connects to the fill valve. It was hidden about a half inch inside the tube so you might not see it. Try squeezing the tube to see if it’s there. Removing the restrictor corrected the bowl fill problem in my Champion 4.

    Before I start the review, I want to say that I really wanted a Toto based on all the positive reviews here and I would have bought one too if I could get one "off the shelf" locally at a plumbing supply place (Note: It turns out I could have – see more later). I found a few plumbing supply showrooms where I could order a Toto and get it in a few days (or weeks depending on color) but the show rooms didn’t stock anything. So I took a chance with a Champion 4.

    Now my initial review of the Champion 4.
    I bought the champion 4 elongated “Right Height” at Lowes about 2 weeks ago (late January 2010).

    The packaging used for these is terrible. Look for a sealed box then open and inspect it at the store before you buy or at least before you leave the parking lot.

    The first thing I noticed was that the inside of the trap seemed rough. I was as if it was not glazed properly but that wasn’t the case. It was just some substance that had to be cleaned off. The glaze was fine. This was not how it should have been sold and I could easily see someone rejecting it or returning it based on that crud on the surface in the trap. After it was cleaned off, the glaze in the trap seemed fine. Maybe it was remnants of some polish they didn’t remove. As Terry consistently says, their quality control and workmanship are lacking.

    The elongated “Right Height” bowl is very big and you’re going to need all of the 12” rough-in space for it to fit. If you’re rough-in is any smaller than 12”, you may not get it to fit.

    It does take some fineness to attach the tank to the bowl and avoid the “tank wobble” that many complained about. You must tighten the bolts, alternating sides, until the tank hits the tabs on the bowl. In my case, the front tabs contacted first but that's not tight enough. As you continue to tighten, the tank will then start to level itself out as it begins to come in contact with the back tabs. Don’t tighten it any more than that. Does it seem like you’re going to crack the tank or bowl? Yes it does. Will it crack? It shouldn’t unless you tighten it beyond the point where the tabs make contact.

    The included seat is flimsy and makes the overall feel of this toilet feel cheap even though the toilet itself has a very solid feel. Other than the flimsy feel, the seat works fine but I’m going to replace it with something better soon.

    Adding to the cheap feel, is the chrome plated plastic flush lever. Not only is the handle plastic, but the actual lever is too. This results in a slightly springy feel to the flush because the plastic lever bends as you push the handle down. Eventually there is enough force to pull the flapper up. I don’t like the feel. I could live with it but I replaced it with a metal version I got online for about $16 (it’s the one AS sells for the original champion). I like the feel much better but obviously there’s no real performance benefit. By the way, the flush demonstration video on the American Standard website is misleading. It shows the inside of the tank during a flush and clearly shows the lever as being metal.

    In my opinion, if a company wants to impress consumers, all the components that we have direct interaction with on a daily basis (Seat, Flush handle etc) should be designed to look and feel substantial. This is not the case with the Champion 4. I’d pay more if they offered better parts. Maybe they cheapen the ones that they sell at Lowes and Home Depot.

    Speaking of Lowes and Home Depot, their part numbers for what seems to be an identical Champion 4 Toilet kit are different. At Lowes the part number is “2793.000.020” which I can’t find on the AS website. At Home Depot, the part number is “2586.000.020” which I can find on the AS website. I’ve looked closely at both in the stores and can’t see any difference at all. Does anyone here know why there are different part numbers?

    Results: There's no doubt that it has a powerful flush. Everything seems to be working very well. But…

    I don’t like the “Right Height” ADA size. I don’t know why this is such a big trend but I don’t like it. So, I moved it to my son’s bathroom (where it replaced a clog prone Mansfield installed by the builder 10 years ago).

    Since I knew I wanted a standard height toilet and would have to order it whether it was a TOTO or a Champion 4, I decided to get the Ultramax in Sedona Beige because I thought the master bath deserved a more stylish one piece in off white. I decided to checkout one last Plumbing Supply Showroom near where I work that was listed on Toto's website. They had several Toto’s in stock including an Ultramax in Sedona Beige! I would have preferred the Eco-Ultramax because of the water rebates being offered but there were none in stock and the order would have taken 3 to 4 weeks.

    The Toto Ultramax is everything people here say it is. The Toto workmanship is amazing. The included seat is far better than the included seat on the Champion (though it does make creaking sounds). Here’s something surprising, a Toto Ultramax is much less expensive than the 1-piece Champion 4 (which doesn’t even include a seat).

    I hope to report back on their performance after a year or so to see how they both hold up.
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2010
  16. rexles

    rexles New Member

    Messages:
    16
    Location:
    Holland, OH
    Plastic substance in toilet trap

    I had a customer today who called me back for the second time because of a plugged toilet. A/S Champion 4 installed 1/10 by another Plumber. First time I was there I pulled back a plastic substance with my auger. It was in 2 pieces and had at one time fit together and was aboput 6' long. Customer said they were sure they had not dropped it in toilet. It seemed to kind of be conformed to the shape of the trap in toilet.
    Today as I went back with the same problem. I pulled out another piece of plastic also conformed to the trap as it makes its last turn to go out the bottom.
    Is this something A/S used in the making of the toilet that never came out during the process? Is it something to make the vitrious on the inside of the trap smooth to give the better flush:confused:
    Anybody ever had this problem before?
    I am pretty sure I could not get a straight answer from anybody in A/S customer service.
  17. thdang

    thdang New Member

    Messages:
    2
    Location:
    Tempe, AZ
    No, not really! I bought that seal also at Lowe's for about 5 bucks and it worked good for only 3 days. Now, off and on, water still leaks at shorter interval time and lower rate. Maybe it will get worse later. Please help if you have a better way to fix this chronic problem. Thanks.
  18. maddog

    maddog Engineer

    Messages:
    129
    Location:
    near San Jose, CA.
    Hmmm - a couple of things to try. Examine the seal carefully to make sure there are no cuts, nicks or dents. Make sure the seal is installed correctly and maybe try turning the seal over to see if the other side seals correctly. After installing this seal (and replacing the original garbage flush tower), the Champion has been a very reliable and strong-flushing toilet. Still no clogs and no more leaks. -dog
  19. Reader Review

    Reader Review Comments by readers

    notice all of your reviews for the champion 4 toilets are 2005 or older. I work in a Major Home Improvement Box store and have sold over 90 of these Champion 4 toilets this year. I have had none returned and no complaints. You web page review is out of date.

    Thank You
    J/C

    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 15, 2014
  20. Reader Review

    Reader Review Comments by readers

    Champion review, 8/11/2010 by Ken in New York

    I pruchased two American Standard toilets within the past year. I assumed as new Champion toilets Model N0 4266 and had them installed. I assumed since they were both new toilets they would work with no problems. They flushed well and I did not check to see if they leaked through the flush valve. Recently I put food coloring in the tank since we wre using more water than expected. They both leaked through the flush valve. American Standard sent me two new gaskets. I replaced the gaskets and then recently checked with food coloring for leaks. One still leaked very slowly.

    I am concerned that a continual slow lead will erode a grove in the system that can not be fixed with a new gasket.
    Ken in New York
Similar Threads: American Standard
Forum Title Date
Toilet Forum discussions American Standard Toilet Actuator Problem Yesterday at 7:16 AM
Toilet Forum discussions Old American-Standard Leaks Despite New Flush Valve Disc Oct 10, 2014
Toilet Forum discussions New American Standard Optum Vormax toilet??? Oct 7, 2014
Toilet Forum discussions American Standard Luxor 2002 Oct 7, 2014
Toilet Forum discussions American Standard Champion 4 1.6gpf vs 1.28gpf Aug 22, 2014

Share This Page