American Standard Cadet 3 with a defect...return or keep?

Discussion in 'Toilet Forum discussions' started by sd, Jul 23, 2012.

  1. sd

    sd New Member

    Messages:
    10
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Hello,

    I have a brand new, uninstalled, American Standard Cadet 3 (10" rough in, linen) that I discovered has at least one, and possibly two, defects. I went through a lot to obtain the toilet and am reluctant to return it for a variety of reasons but will if the defects are serious enough.

    The first issue is that there is a spot (about the size of a dime) without glazing in the bowl (see spot in center of photo). Is this a big issue? Will this be difficult to clean? Could it leak?

    The second issue is the toilet rocks when placed on a flat surface. It isn't installed yet though so I thought maybe the plumber could put shims under it to solve that problem.

    This is the first toilet I've purchased so any guidance would be appreciated. Thank you!

    (For what it is worth, I obtained the toilet through a plumbing supply company. I waited for 2 months to get it and carried it up four flights of stairs so the thought of returning it is discouraging, to say the least.)

    IMG_2701.jpg
  2. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,005
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    That's a serious defect. An unglazed spot in the bowl will get and stay dirty quickly.
  3. sd

    sd New Member

    Messages:
    10
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    I was afraid of that. Thank you for your very prompt response. I'll start the process of returning it.
  4. Gary Swart

    Gary Swart In the Trades

    Messages:
    7,350
    Location:
    Yakima WA
    The best thing you could do is get your money back and buy a Toto.
  5. sd

    sd New Member

    Messages:
    10
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    I would have gotten a Toto but, unfortunately, they don't make one that will fit in my space. I have a 10" rough in and the toilet can't be more than 27" deep due to the swing of the bathroom door. Those factors really limited the toilets I could choose from.
  6. sd

    sd New Member

    Messages:
    10
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    The other limiting factor was that I needed the toilet in an off-white color.
  7. Gary Swart

    Gary Swart In the Trades

    Messages:
    7,350
    Location:
    Yakima WA
    Did you even look at the various Toto models that use the Unifit adapter? I believe there is a white that would come very close to matching what you have. You are looking at an investment that should last for many years. Don't make a mistake now that you will come to regret later.
  8. sd

    sd New Member

    Messages:
    10
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    It's possible I missed something, but I've been through the Toto site several times and can't find a model that has a 10" rough-in and is less than 27" deep. There are some toilets that are slightly less than 27" but they don't seem to accommodate the Unifit adapter. I am in a condo and don't expect to be here for many years so all I was hoping was that the Cadet 3 would be an improvement over my current 25 year old Eljer that clogs if you look at it funny (a plumber I had look at it seemed to think that replacement was wiser than a repair of my current toilet since it is a fundamentally poor design).
  9. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    22,019
    Location:
    New England
    Unfortuneately, I think all of the Totos that use the Unifit adapter are longer than 27". The rocking can be solved, the glaze missing, no.
  10. sd

    sd New Member

    Messages:
    10
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Thanks, Jim. It's good to know I didn't overlook one.

    I had known that American Standard had quality control issues when I chose the Cadet 3 but I had hoped that I'd improve my odds by going through a plumbing supply company rather than Home Depot. Apparently not. For what it is worth, the tank is stamped that it was made in Mexico on March 26, 2011.
  11. wjcandee

    wjcandee Wise One

    Messages:
    1,853
    Location:
    New York, NY
    That sucks. Especially considering how long you had to wait for the thing... There's a Drake that has a 10" rough-in, but it's only available in the elongated bowl, so you're at 28", plus the Drakes I have (round and elongated on 12" rough-in) sit off the wall about 1-1/8", which is about 3/8" more than the 3/4" that is more typical. The spec sheet says 3/4", but I'm not sure whether to believe it. The Drake is a real bargain, considering what a great toilet it is, but I guess it won't work for you.

    Anyway, good luck with this! Terry has had some choice things to say about AS quality control in the past...guess there hasn't been any improvement, even though I notice that they now are really trying to market to the trades. I guess that they're trying to make up with marketing for what they can't deliver in quality.

    Thank goodness I found you guys before my latest round of toilet purchases. Every one of my Totos came (as best I can tell) flawless.
  12. Gary Swart

    Gary Swart In the Trades

    Messages:
    7,350
    Location:
    Yakima WA
    There's always concerns about "Codes" on this forum. Seems there's a code to cover about everything. But, I think there's one more that should be added. It would deal with minimum bathroom size and require that all toilets have a 12" rough-in and that no door could swing into the toilet. This problem comes up so frequently and other than suggestion a pocket door there often isn't any practical answer. Sorry we couldn't help more.
  13. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,005
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    This isn't an issue with new construction. It's more often the older homes with their tiny bathrooms, and yes, the added on baths done without inspections.

    I find that a lot of the 1920 homes had wall mounted tanks, and were very short to the wall. Those were mainly 14" rough.
    If you find a 10" rough, it's either that there was an something in the way, like a floor joist, or that the measurement was off for the framer after a pour. At least with a 10" and very little space, there are bowls that fit with thin tanks that allow for moving the bowl back.

    This one looks to be 26-1/4" from wall to end of bowl on a 10"
    http://www.americanstandard-us.com/assets/documents/amstd/spec/SpecSheet_2723.pdf

    I do sell the occasional Cadet 10"
    I know people don't think I sell them, but I do. Just not very many.
    Last week Jamie went out and replaced an A/S Glenwall bowl that was defective and the homeowner had been using it for 10 years that way. The bowl had never filled with water. All of the rim holes were plugged and he was using a small bucket by the toilet to rinse the bowl.
    He was amazed to see how it performed about we switched out the bowl.
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2012
  14. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,642
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    The problems with that toilet, especially the glazing, is more typical of one purchased from a "big box store", because they HOPE you will keep it. If you return it, they just lost the profit because they would have had to destroy it anyway if they had rejected it during the inspection process.
  15. sd

    sd New Member

    Messages:
    10
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Hello again,

    I just wanted to check in with an update. At long last, I got my replacement toilet (my brother-in-law, who works for a plumbing manufacturer, is helping me get these toilets through his contacts at a local distributor which is why it took so long). If you can believe it, the replacement toilet has a defect too. It has some sort of metallic smudge on the outside of the bowl (see attached photo). I have tried to clean it off with a Mr. Clean eraser but it didn't help much, if at all. At this point, I've thrown in the towel and won't go through (or put my brother-in-law through) another return. If anyone can suggest something to clean off the metallic mark, I would be very grateful.

    Needless to say, I am appalled at American Standard's lack of quality control and will never select one of their toilets again.

    IMG_3561a.JPG
  16. SamC

    SamC Member

    Messages:
    130
    Location:
    Georgia
  17. sd

    sd New Member

    Messages:
    10
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Thank you so much, SamC. I will try that tonight.
  18. sd

    sd New Member

    Messages:
    10
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    After trying baking soda and various cleaners, it was Soft Scrub with Bleach that finally took off most of the metallic mark. Thanks again for the help, SamC.
  19. wjcandee

    wjcandee Wise One

    Messages:
    1,853
    Location:
    New York, NY
    I had no idea what to recommend, but I was sure hoping that after what you went through earlier that one of our contributors would have a great solution. And, great forum that this is, SamC came through! I, too, thank SamC because I now have an idea of what to use on some other problem stains on one of my older toilets. Great job, SamC!!

    SD -- I hope the rest of your install goes well. A lot of us have been following your saga with interest, so feel free to shoot and post us a photo when it's finally in!
  20. sd

    sd New Member

    Messages:
    10
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Thank you for the support wjcandee! One good thing is that the new toilet seems to be completely level and doesn't rock when placed on the floor. I can only hope that this second toilet has no other defects. I will be sure to post a photo once it has been installed (hopefully soon!).
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