Am I going to have trouble with my trap?

Discussion in 'Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice' started by Xenomorph, Feb 23, 2007.

  1. Xenomorph

    Xenomorph New Member

    Messages:
    41
    I am kind of nervous about one small part of my plumbing design, my code book shows this installation to be ok, but it just doesn't look right to me for some reason. Will my water heater drain trap be affected by the draining of the washing machine?

    thx.

    Attached Files:

  2. leejosepho

    leejosepho DIY scratch-pad engineer

    The problems I see there are the absence of a trap between the washing machine drain and the 4" line, and the fact that the trap for the water heater is going to be drying out all the time. So, I believe a trap between the washing machine drain and the 4" line would actually take care of both problems. And, I would come up to the washing machine with 2" pipe just to be sure the washer drain has plenty of vent and unrestricted flow.
  3. trap for the water heater

    it probably will work.....

    if it is run out of 2 inch its not much different

    than a glorified floor drain


    I would probably make the trap for tha water heater pan
    extra deep with elbows and nipples jsut to be sure it does not
    dry out or have the possibility of ever being siphoned out...

    you can also ad an auto air vent somewhere near the trap at the
    end of the line....
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2007
  4. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    27,026
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    drain

    There is no need for a trap between the WM and the 4", because you already have a trap on the WM. The water heater trap either should have, or must have, a trap primer to prevent drying out. One possible downside, is that if the line from the WM to the 4" becomes slightly restricted, or the WM has a high volume pump, there could be enough water to cause a backup through the floor drain during the discharge cycle. Unfortunately, the only way to check that is to install it and then try it, but by that time it is usually too late to do anything about it.
  5. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

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    15,289
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    UPC Code in the Seattle area would require that the floor drain have it's own vent, rather than trying to wet vent a washer over a floor drain.

    Wet venting requires upsizing the drain of the fixture being used as a vent, and that has not been done.

    Like hj says, you will want some type of trap primer for the floor drain.
    It may make sense to run 3" on the horizontal below ground for the washer, over to the 4" to prevent backing up into the floor drain.

    The vent for the floor drain can tie back into the vent for the washer at 42" above the ground. In most cases, you can then go five feet to the trap.
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2007
  6. leejosepho

    leejosepho DIY scratch-pad engineer

    Maybe I am not up-to-speed here, but my own discharge from the washing machine is simply a 1-1/4" hose stuck down into a 2" pipe sticking up through the floor, and that pipe would function as a vent for the sewage line if it did not have its own trap beforehand.
  7. Xenomorph

    Xenomorph New Member

    Messages:
    41
    My code book allows a 2" wet vent to serve 4 fixture units, and I am using a total of 4 for that line in my proposed drawing. Do you guys still think I should upsize?

    I guess I will take a look into priming that water heater trap, thanks for the info everyone!
  8. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,289
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    What code book are you using? I'm using the UPC.

    908.1 Wet venting is limited to vertical drainage pipine receiving the discharge from the trap arem of "one" and "two" fixture unit fixtures that also serves as a vent for not to exceed four fixtures.

    Okay, that means you can wet vent a lav or a sink, but not a washer.
    A clothes washer is "three" fixture units and does not meet the requirement.

    Code for vents

    Charts for waste and vents


    908.2 The vertical piping between any two consecutive inlet levels shall be considered a wet-vented section. Each wet-vented section shall be a minimum of one pipe size larger.

    A washer uses a 2" trap and waste. Upsizing would mean a 2.5" pipe. Or since it's hard to find 2.5" pipe and fittings, you would be looking at 3"
    But since the code doesn't allow a washer on a wet vent, it's back to,
    So how much would it cost to add a vent to the floor drain?
    I think it's about $7.40

    The reason for venting the floor drain, is to prevent the washer from siphoning the trap dry.

    Last edited: Feb 24, 2007
  9. Xenomorph

    Xenomorph New Member

    Messages:
    41
    I am BC, Canada. And the code book was just updated a few months ago, so it's current for my region. The weather is fairly mild all year round here, so that's why I was trying to get away without using a primer, but I just looked in the code book regarding floor drains and it says I should be using a primer..so I guess that settles that (oh my poor wallet is imploding by now)
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2007
  10. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,289
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    Some use a fitting on the tailpiece with a 1/2" line to the trap.
    When water is used at the other fixture, a bit of water would drain down and keep the floor drain trap filled.

    I like the idea of that, because you are already using water, might as well get more use from it.

    Trap primers from the water supplies mean that you are dripping water in to keep it primed.
  11. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    27,026
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    leejosepho

    If what you are saying is true, then you have a completely improper drain system. Period.
  12. leejosepho

    leejosepho DIY scratch-pad engineer

    If so, everything is still exposed in the basement and I can easily change it, but what I have is all I have ever seen or known and it is essentially no different in design or function than if the washer's discharge hose would be hanging on the edge of a utility sink: the hose discharges into a line with a trap. So then, what is wrong there and/or what should I have instead?
  13. jimbo

    jimbo Plumber

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    8,997
    Location:
    San Diego
    The standpipe for your washing machine should be coming up from a trap. If it is not, you have a very bad situation as you will get sewer gas out of the standpipe. It is quite possible there is a trap below the floor, but that is not proper either. The trap for a washer is required to be ABOVE the floor. You need to have someone take a look at your situation,
  14. leejosepho

    leejosepho DIY scratch-pad engineer

    Okay, take a look. The standpipe for my washing machine comes up from an eventual trap, and the location of that trap makes it impossible for sewer gas (or any other gas or odor or whatever) to ever come up out of the standpipe. In the picture, the trap you see is at the end of the run coming from the washer's standpipe (and nothing else), and that trap discharges into the 3" "wet vent"(?) that comes up out of my 4" line carrying gray water out of my house at the bottom of the picture. From what you have said, there is something wrong with my trap being "below the floor" and maybe even with it being so far away (about 15 feet), but there is no way the washer could ever blow the trap dry and there is no way even a heavy flow in the pipe could ever suck the trap dry.

    Question: Why would it be required that the trap for a washer be "ABOVE the floor"? In my own case, that would make it succeptible to siphoning.

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