alternate use of kitchen handheld sprayer

Discussion in 'Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice, Tips & ' started by 49chevy, Jul 6, 2006.

  1. 49chevy

    49chevy New Member

    Messages:
    4
    Location:
    nebraska
    Is it possible to connect a handheld shower directly to a Delta 44551 bath/shower valve and use it with my Delta pull-down style faucet diverter? I don't want all those exposed hoses and bars and existing showerheads, nor do I want all kinds of showerhead options - I just want to be able to rinse after a child's shampoo, etc.
    I'd like to deck mount the shower head at the head of a Swanstone tub, and I have plenty of access and space to install the hose as if it were a kitchen sprayer... in fact, a kitchen sprayer would work just fine, by being small and by having the sprayer "thumb controlled".
    If the kitchen sprayer idea is too weird (I don't see that anyone has asked exactly that before) can you suggest an attractive and simple hand shower that would connect and function in the same way? I assume that additional backflow prevention would not be required, but please advise.
    That's a lot of words for a simple question, and I appreciate your patience and help. This looks like the only place on the web where it's available!!
  2. i agree. 100%

    When I tried to talk to people about this same idea last year, I got a lot of resistance of all kinds, from everywhere. But in the end all that resistance 'melts' away when you piece apart the arguments.

    The hand-shower would have a concealed flexible line. Better terminology can be used to describe the 'supply line' but off-hand I don't remember it right now. Later, if we keep talking, I'll get it. You really need the right terminology if you want anyone who knows plumbing or bathrooms to agree with you. My opinion.

    A bathroom is not a kitchen. In a bathroom, water can spray from anywhere and land anywhere. Is your tub a tub-shower? If so, water will definitely get into the "collar" where your flex supply line to the handshower will come out of the deck or wall.

    This is the biggest impediment to getting people to agree that you "can" do what you are suggesting. My opinion.

    Second question, much less serious: -your "elbow" must be placed somewhere ideally where you can see it and access it. Which elbow? The one that starts the flex supply line. Usually it is on the finished side of your living area, on a surface, and NOT "hidden" behind the wall or under a deck. Sczary thought to some, but easy to conceptualize for me and you. :)

    Hope this helps.
    DAvid
  3. Lakee911

    Lakee911 I&C Engineer (mostly WWTP)

    Messages:
    1,328
    Location:
    Columbus, OH
    You'd probably need some sort of diverter so you're not pressurizing that sprayer at all times.

    Do they make a tub spout with a pull out sprayer? That'd be ideal, no?

    Jason
  4. 49chevy

    49chevy New Member

    Messages:
    4
    Location:
    nebraska
    David, thanks for agreeing that I'm not completely nuts... No, it's tub only with tile around it and up 15 inchs or so, so I don't see any moisture getting into things while the sprayer is deck-mounted and not in use. I suppose there is that possibility when it's in use, but the same applies to the kitchen sink, right? I have enough room under the tub (this bath is on the 2nd floor) that I could place a small, appropriately-sized pan between the ceiling joists below it. The biggest question, if I stay w/ the kitchen sprayer idea, is adapting the different size fitting.
  5. 49chevy

    49chevy New Member

    Messages:
    4
    Location:
    nebraska
    Lakee911,
    Thanks also to you.
    In theory, there's water pressure to the hand sprayer at the kitchen sink full time, and they seem to hold up OK. So, if I use a three-way valve on the tub, there's pressure to the hand sprayer only if the water flow is diverted to it at the faucet, and no more then than there would be to the shower under the same conditions.
    I suppose my bigger concern would be the strength of the supply line (hose, braided, whatever) under the higher flow rate of a bath faucet over a kitchen faucet and what happens when I change the flow or pressure with the needed (compression?) fittings.
    The pull out sprayer's a neat idea, should we patent that for bath use?
  6. Lakee911

    Lakee911 I&C Engineer (mostly WWTP)

    Messages:
    1,328
    Location:
    Columbus, OH
    Hmm ... I suppose that is true--kind off. I was thinking you meant more of an always on type of thing, ie connect it up to a mixing valve and use the thumb control for on/off--that wouldn't be good. They may make a diverter valve similiar in concept to the sink...maybe like something that could be adapted for a sink that wasn't designed for a sprayer?
    Valid Concern. Maybe steel braided hose?

    Actually I remember something that looked like one of those old style phones, but it was a sprayer that layed horizontally on a cradle for like a fancy tub or something. How 'bout that?

    Jason
  7. Lakee911

    Lakee911 I&C Engineer (mostly WWTP)

    Messages:
    1,328
    Location:
    Columbus, OH
  8. akrogirl

    akrogirl New Member

    Messages:
    5
    Have you considered the Grohe Europlus II? The thermostatic roman tub filler comes complete with a pull-out hand spray. We installed the sink faucet with pull-out spray in our last house and were very pleased with it.

    http://www.grohecatalog.com/product/19999/
  9. Bob NH

    Bob NH In the Trades

    Messages:
    3,317
    Location:
    New Hampshire
    A kitchen sprayer works only when the water is running in the faucet. Pressing the spray button diverts the water from the faucet to the sparyer. You probably won't be running water to the tub when you want to rinse the child's hair.

    I suspect that you might find something in a barber sink system. You could probably adapt it to use just the sprayer.

    Here is one that attaches to the shower and the hose disconnects when not needed. http://www.petsafestore.com/riacechpetsh.html
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2006
  10. socal

    socal New Member

    Messages:
    7
    I wanted something similar and ended up ordering Danze D491115BN personal shower. It is the part that deck mounts and has a diverter built into it. They also make a D491110.

    I am using a single handle shower/tub valve which has a diverter also built into the valve for my tub only application. The tub filler spout will be installed as normal. I am hooking the personal shower stick wand up to copper routed from the shower port of the valve.

    Double protection in my mind as it won't be pressurized unless I flip that diverter. Then it won't spray unless I press the diverter on the wand.

    The wand comes with a nice steel jacketed hose with a threaded male end that would get hooked up to the plumbing and a very nice receptor for the deck mount. My tub skirt has a removable panel so access would not be problematic.

    It is normally part of the Roman tub faucet but can be ordered separately, which I did.

    So far I am pleased with the quality of the Danze material. Well priced, good finish, heavy brass. It is made in China to Globe Union America Corp.'s quality standards according to the label on the box. I've already done a bathroom and kitchen with their faucets and they are great. And no, I don't work for them. Just a pleased homeowner, DIY.
  11. Pewterpower

    Pewterpower New Member

    Messages:
    262
    Location:
    Tampa
    What a neat idea.....
    I would try to wall mount it, rather than deck mount it, to prevent seepage.
    The ideal thing would be to tee it off of a supply line, so it would be always ready, but that would be a c-c-c-coooold shock and heart attack. :)
    You would have to come off the tub spout, so the water temp would already be set.
  12. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,281
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    spray

    You have not come up with a "new" or "unique" idea. Pull out shower units are installed all the time. The sink hose spray would be a bad idea, however. Besides being too short, with the push button control, you could turn off the water with the sprayer, but not with the tub/shower control valve. That is when the hose could burst, or you would create any number of water flow temperature issues that might be hard to diagnose if the plumber did not know about your contraption.
  13. jaynote1

    jaynote1 Plumber

    Messages:
    15
    Location:
    southeastern nc
    ok im just thinking here, so what if you use a regular two-handle tub/shower valve with a spout diverter, come off of the shower line and adapt a mip-to-1/4 fitting that a lot of sprayer hoses attach to.........then you could drill an appropriate size hole, use the sprayer escutcheon, and bam............(just an idea, im only an apprentice......)....
  14. 49chevy

    forgot to mention this yesterday: I was thinking of connecting a regular bathroom handshower and not a kitchen sprayer. This would require a stop valve.

    David
  15. 49chevy

    49chevy New Member

    Messages:
    4
    Location:
    nebraska
    Just wanted everyone to know that I appreciate your comments and help, and am more on track now, after reading your suggestions. This is the first time I've visited the forum, and I'll be back! Thanks, y'all, and keep smilin'
  16. get a DELTA diverter valve......

    I have about 6 of those diverters sitting on my shelf in chrome

    turned to the right it works the ROman tub filler

    turned to the left it diverts the water to the pull out sprayer

    mounted in a flange on the tub.....

    theya re not very popular for some reason.....possilby price...

    used to cost about $200



    make the connectins under the whirlpool tub and its

    fairley easy....
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2006
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