Advise to remove a Flex control from tank and conversion from WS to Sediment Filter

[pho]

Thank you for all the advices given to me for my recent thread about the resin spilling out of my Culligan.
It works fine now with the new resin.
I've a while ago a dual tank WS from our rental house. It belong to the previous owner. Seems like a Flex 9000 with 2 tanks size 8"* 44" each.
I've not hooked water yet and the control seems to work fine.
I've few questions:
1) How could I remove the control from the tank so the media could be replaced ? Using a large plumber wrench ? How could I hold the tank in place ? Removing the control from the Culligan is so easy with a clamp hold by 2 screws.
2) I plan to convert the WS into a sediment filter or carbon filter by changing the media and removing the pins on the control wheel to disable the brine cycle. Is it possible ?
3) With my water usage of 200 per day, if I use the carbon media, how often should I replace it ? I could not believe when people says about every 5 years. How could the backwash rejuvenate the carbon media ?
4) Any recommendation for sediment and carbon media brand ?
5) Should it be installed before or after the WS ?
I've a Pura Big Boy filter 20"*5". The 10 mic filter is greenish only after a few months of usage from the lake water. and still let lot of sediment/algea going into the house . My water goes thru a sand filter (used in pool) and sit for 1 day for gravity sedimentation before going into the Pura filter.
6) I guess the Big boy pura filter is only 10gpm. When my powerful 2hp booster pump pushes water thru the filter into the pressure tank, the flow could be too big so the sediments are carried too. My design is to have cleaner water into the pressure tank but I think it could be better for the filter location to be after the pressure tank.

 

[Reach4]

4) Any recommendation for sediment and carbon media brand ?
5) Should it be installed before or after the WS ?
I've a Pura Big Boy filter 20"*5". The 10 mic filter is greenish only after a few months of usage from the lake water. and still let lot of sediment/algea going into the house . My water goes thru a sand filter (used in pool) and sit for 1 day for gravity sedimentation before going into the Pura filter.

Pressure tank and switch, then bleach injection to kill algae and bugs etc, then contact tank to let bleach work, then carbon filter removing stuff including chlorine. Then cartridge sediment filter if any. Then WS.

Your big sand filter-- that is pressurized? Maybe that could double as the contact tank.

Not a firm prescription. Just an idea. If you do not have chlorine injection, I see things growing in your carbon tanks.

I guess the Big boy pura filter is only 10gpm. When my powerful 2hp booster pump pushes water thru the filter into the pressure tank, the flow could be too big so the sediments are carried too.

This one stuck out. You should not have a filter before the pressure switch, and the pressure switch should always be before the pressure tank. The problem is, if the filter clogs, the pump will never turn off.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[pho]

Thank you Reach4. I've talked about my system in the thread:
Resin spilling out at backwash cycle in Culligan WS
Here is my actual system:
2hp lake pump ----600' 2" pvc----sand filter -->600 gal cistern --> 2hp booster pump -->(Sediment + UV filter) -->2 pressure tanks 70 gal water storage-->water softener--> house (head or elevation from pump to house: 120')
The sand filter is not pressurized since the water is dumped into the cistern at 5 psi.
The bleach injection is at the booster pump.
My neighbor with his lake pump going to the pressure tank thru a sand filter like mine. Guess what ? It explodes since it could not hold the pressure.
What is the difference between the pressure tank and contact tank ?

 

[Reach4]

Contact tank gives the chlorine time to act on the organisms.

So after pressure tank put the carbon filter. WS is last.

 

[ByteMe]

You listed 200 gpd of useage/ 120' of head , 600' distance and have 2 HP pumps?

What am I missing?!? The pumps seem to be oversized.

I should look up the charts for pressure loss.... Still seems oversized.

You ever use the amp meter to get current useage?

 

[pho]

Thank youReach4 and Byteme.
It is true that it would take only 10-15mn for the lake pump to fill out a 600 gallon cistern tank at 5 psi that we use for 3 days. It is helped by another booster pump to do the hard work of cycling to 50-75 psi.

I forget to mention that my pump is also used to water the lawn of a 1 acre lot . For 6 zones running 80 mn and assume 35 gpm, I am using 2800 gpm/ per day during summer. A 2 hp could handle 12 large rotor sprinklers with 30' radius for each zone at 25 psi.

I take care of my pump, visit my pump house more than other people do. The starting/run current is 90a/13-14 A which is within the spec.

All my neighbors are using at least 1.5hp for their household water usage. Very few (the 1960 or 1979 people) use 1.0 Hp which would take lot of time to fill a pressure tank. Could be 6 to 8 times vs a 2 hp. My neighbor who is tired of taking too long to water his yard double his pump from 1.5hp to 3 hp.

The curves and specs are for new pump run in ideal condition of voltage, temperature etc...After 10 or 15 years, with the sediment building up, run and capacitors degrading, the pump will not delivered water as new. Then it died probably from the control caps (replaced twice) and from the calcium sediments inside the pump.

Pumps are devices that are checked only after failing. Most people never checks if their pressure tank bladder is good, or the pump cycle every time the commode is used or the pressure switch contact points are still in good shape.

 

[ditttohead]

1) How could I remove the control from the tank so the media could be replaced ? Using a large plumber wrench ? How could I hold the tank in place ? Removing the control from the Culligan is so easy with a clamp hold by 2 screws. The valve simply unscrews from the tank.
2) I plan to convert the WS into a sediment filter or carbon filter by changing the media and removing the pins on the control wheel to disable the brine cycle. Is it possible ? Not necessary, simply plug the brine line and change the brine draw cycle to 2 pins. You can even replace the injector with an injector plug internally, this will only save you a gallon of water when the system cycles. Regardless, the 9000 is not the most common valve used for filter applications. It has a limited backwash capability. Be sure to take that into consideration prior to spending money on converting the valve to a filter. Carbon takes approximately 2X the backwash that a softener does, sediment filtration takes 3x.
3) With my water usage of 200 per day, if I use the carbon media, how often should I replace it ? I could not believe when people says about every 5 years. How could the backwash rejuvenate the carbon media ? 5 years is a standard life expectancy given not typically based on capacity but rather for sanitary reasons. Carbon is a media that can harbor bacteria. In order to control this, the carbon should be changed out occasionally. If the carbon is being used for chlorine reduction, then there are some estimated calculations we can do, but in general the longevity of the carbon by capcity can be many years in most applications if it sized correctly. There is a lot more to it than what I have stated, but I didn't want to write a 3000 word essay. I'm not in school anymore. Backwashing does not "rejuvenate" the carbon. It reclassifies the bed and helps to remove any built up sediment. When carbon is uded with clean water, it is typical to only backwash it monthly. When it is being used in an oxidation/iron reduction dechlorination design, every couple of days backwashing is more typical.
4) Any recommendation for sediment and carbon media brand ? Sediment reduction is dependent on what level of removal, what micron reduction, backwash water availability etc. For regular sediment reduction with estimated reduction to the 30 micron range, Filter-Ag is adequate. For an estimated 5 micron reduction range (double the backwash requirement) Filter Ag+, Clinoptilolite, Micro-Z, Turbidex, Nextsand... For Carbon, again this is dependent on the application, contaminate that are being removed etc. What is your application and desired results?
5) Should it be installed before or after the WS ? Typically before the softener
I've a Pura Big Boy filter 20"*5". The 10 mic filter is greenish only after a few months of usage from the lake water. and still let lot of sediment/algea going into the house . My water goes thru a sand filter (used in pool) and sit for 1 day for gravity sedimentation before going into the Pura filter. I don't think the filter is letting algae into your house, the filter only removes sediment. Algae will basically grow in a system that has been "contaminated". Once you have algae growth in your plumbing, it may be necessary to shock and sanitize your plumbing. It can be difficult to remove and you may have to simply try to control it. Considering the source of your water, I would recommend leaving a residual of chlorine in your water going to the house.
6) I guess the Big boy pura filter is only 10gpm. When my powerful 2hp booster pump pushes water thru the filter into the pressure tank, the flow could be too big so the sediments are carried too. My design is to have cleaner water into the pressure tank but I think it could be better for the filter location to be after the pressure tank.

 

[pho]

Thank you very sir, Mr Dittohead... This is the reply I am waiting a long time.
!) Please clarify: You can even replace the injector with an injector plug internally, this will only save you a gallon of water when the system cycles. Where is the injector anyway and injector plug internally ?
2) I like to remove to 5 mic since 5mic still leave residue. The water from the lake is for household usage (wjich go thru the extra filtration) and sprinkler irrigation. We use 5 stage reverse osmosis for drinking and later replace it with 3 stages (Sedienet+ 2 stage carbon) and we still doing well.
3) After I inject a little of bleach into the system, there is no more green slime build on the filter anymore.(ie 3 months 18000 gal for 0.5 bleach).
Question:
Without changing the existing WS media, how effective could it be used as sediment filter ? How much mic sediment could it remove ?
Again it is a please to know you, Mr Dittohead. As R&D and water designer, what do you do in real life ? Any big and challenging project ? Please share with us if you don't mind.

 

[ditttohead]

I develop and manufacture Ultra-Pure water treatment systems, commercial industrial filtration, residential systems, light commercial RO's, and we are a contract manufacturer for several major companies. We prototype and develop equipment for many companies to brand under their own name. We primarily manufacture in the USA with as much USA sourced components as reasonable.

As to the 9000, I would recommend simply replacing the system rather than re-using it unless you absolutely must have filtered water 24/7. A standard single tank sediment backwashing system only goes offline for 10 minutes every few days, and usually in the middle of the night. The simplicity of this design compared to a twin alternating system should make maintenance much simpler.

The injector plug is not critical, if you look at the manual, you will see the injector is a small cone shaped plastic piece that is threaded into the valve (near the drain, internally under the injector cap). If you do not plug it, the system will waste a tiny amount of water for the 2 minutes the valve is in the non existent brine draw cycle. http://waterpurification.pentair.co...ad/en/9000-9100-9500-service-manual-40944.pdf It is on page 10, part #26, it can be replace with #28, but... not critical.

Water softening resin does a poor job of removing sediment. Resin is a round media that has very few angular shapes so sediment simply passes through it. It is one of the reasons certain resin based arsenic medias can be run for years without the need for a backwash, the sediment simply passes through the media.

 

[Reach4]

If you do not plug it, the system will waste a tiny amount of water for the 2 minutes the valve is in the non existent brine draw cycle.

Couldn't he just set BD (brine draw) to zero?

 

[ditttohead]

Mechanical valve, minimum time setting is 2 minutes. Good thought though.