advice on new well situation with long haul back to house

Discussion in 'Pumps and Tanks Well Forum & Blog' started by Dale Facey, Jun 30, 2011.

  1. Dale Facey

    Dale Facey New Member

    Messages:
    6
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    About to drill new well, if i find good water yield in this well I'll be about about 1100ft from the house. Running the water back will be expensive, if the well pans out, the driller is suggesting a constant pressure pump with 3 phase wiring system from the house to save money on cost of copper wire size.

    Anyone have any advice on this situation, things i should watch out for / questions / concerns.

    Thanks.
  2. valveman

    valveman Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    4,486
    Location:
    Lubbock, Texas
    You might want to look for another driller. This one is either trying to get to you or doesn’t have much experience. Variable Speed pumps are designed to take extra money out of your pocket. They cost a lot and don’t last very long. Yes you can use smaller wire with the three-phase motor, but the longer the wire the higher the voltage spikes from the VFD, and the sooner your motor will be fried. It’s called a reflective wave, and the longer your wire the worse the problem. I usually here from people about 3-4 years after they do this. They have gone through a couple new vfd controllers, a couple of new motors, and are tired of it costing so much and being out of water so frequently. So now they have to replace the smaller wire with larger wire, and replace the three-phase motor with a single-phase one, and basically start from scratch.

    If your driller doesn’t know these things, then he/she just hasn’t had enough experience to know better. Or worse, they do know better and know this is a way to get you to pay for their next vacation or new drilling rig. The difference in the price of wire is well worth getting something dependable that will last a long time.

    All the pump, motor, and controls manufacturers are really pushing variable speed pumps on their installers and on you. Do you really think they would spend so much advertising something that would save you money? NO! They advertise what makes them the most money, which means it cost you plenty.
  3. LLigetfa

    LLigetfa DIYer, not in the trades

    Messages:
    4,053
    Location:
    NW Ontario, Canada
    Just curious, why does the well have to be 1100 feet from the house? Most people put their well much closer.
  4. valveman

    valveman Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    4,486
    Location:
    Lubbock, Texas
    I have one that is 3500' from the house. Sometimes you just have to go where the water is.
  5. LLigetfa

    LLigetfa DIYer, not in the trades

    Messages:
    4,053
    Location:
    NW Ontario, Canada
    How do you know where the water is before the fact? I had one well driller running around with a forked willow twig telling me where to drill and another driller saying it's all bogus and he'll drill where I want the well and will find water.
  6. Dale Facey

    Dale Facey New Member

    Messages:
    6
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    thanks for the replies guys.

    Yes I was hoping to avoid the question why ? :) I was stupid and started building before checking to see if there was any water underground. I have 25 acres total, so I've been trying to find good yield for about a year now.

    So Valveman, at my distance can I use a conventional pump and big wire ? and would you be able to approximate the pump size and wire size. Just want to now my options.



    thanks again.
  7. ballvalve

    ballvalve General Engineering Contractor

    Messages:
    3,261
    Location:
    northfork, california
    You would have to do a bunch of cost calcs, but a three phase converter [getting pretty cheap now] with a standard 3 phase sub. pump might save you money on the wire run. Or run the wire overhead, you can downsize considerably.

    Consider also solar and wind pumping to a tank.
  8. valveman

    valveman Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    4,486
    Location:
    Lubbock, Texas
    The depth to water and the gpm required will determine the pump size. A ½ HP would need #8 wire and a 1 HP would need #6 wire.

    I would rather use a buck/boost transformer than a phase converter. You can boost the voltage to 480 volt at the source, use smaller wire for 1100’, then another transformer would drop the voltage back to 240 volts.

    Most phase converters still use pulsing DC voltage that causes harmonics, voltage spikes, and reflective waves, just like a VFD. An Add-a-phase or a Roto-phase are about the only phase converter that do not do this.
  9. DonL

    DonL Jack of all trades Master of one

    Messages:
    4,314
    Location:
    Houston, TX
    Faceman,

    You might be able to ask your power company to provide electricity at your pump location.

    Here where I live the power company will help when they can. It does help to know someone.

    They could set a couple poles and fix you up. If they do that in your area you may want to let the power company help you.

    Just my thought.

    Enjoy your day.


    DonL
  10. LLigetfa

    LLigetfa DIYer, not in the trades

    Messages:
    4,053
    Location:
    NW Ontario, Canada
    Don't know why he'd want to put up poles. Since he needs to trench for the pipe anyway, may as well just bury the wire along with it.
  11. Dale Facey

    Dale Facey New Member

    Messages:
    6
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    thanks everyone, you've given me some ideas to bring forward.

    Great Forum here.

    Wish me luck, I just want to find water yield first, I guess I shouldnt get to far ahead of myself.
  12. masterpumpman

    masterpumpman New Member

    Messages:
    729
    Location:
    Virginia Beach, VA
    Yep, find a qualified dowser then a qualified driller.
  13. ballvalve

    ballvalve General Engineering Contractor

    Messages:
    3,261
    Location:
    northfork, california
    I am just now doing research on the transformers for a 4000' run - I was going to go 600 volts. 12KV... But the units are 500$ each, and have stand by losses.

    Your buck boost must be much smaller size?

    I think a rotary 3 phase rig can be had for 3 or 400$ now. And you only need one.

    For 1100 feet he's likey better with just 220v
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