Adding a utility sink here?

Discussion in 'Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice, Tips & ' started by coconutpete, Feb 1, 2013.

  1. coconutpete

    coconutpete New Member

    Messages:
    14
    Location:
    North CT / Denmark
    I'd like to add a utility sink by the washer/dryer. This is the drain over there. The first pipe (left) is the washer), the middle one is the kitchen sink from upstairs and the third one (right) is the vent.

    The bottom of that trap is 10" above the slab and the top (where the pipe connects) is 15".

    Obviously I'd like to be as non-intrusive as I can, but I will do what I must ;)

    Attached Files:

  2. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,635
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    I only see two pipes. The right one into a "P" trap which should be the washer and one in the center of the picture which should be the sink drain. IF this is correct, then the washer does not have a vent, (any pipe to the right would NOT be venting the washing machine), and you have a major repiping to do in order to install the sink drain above the washer's "P" trap, increase the P trap to 2", and get a vent for both of them.
  3. coconutpete

    coconutpete New Member

    Messages:
    14
    Location:
    North CT / Denmark
    Maybe I did a crappy job explaining it. I labelled them - hopefully that helps.

    The way it is now, the vent pipe is above both the sink and the washing machine p-trap. I was under the impression this meant it was venting both of them.

    Attached Files:

  4. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    22,006
    Location:
    New England
    To be a vent, it must come off of the trap arm. Thus, assuming that is an atmospheric vent, it is working properly for the washing machine. Depending on where you live, the WM trap can be up to about 18" above the floor. Run a vent line from each trap arm up to 42" above the floor, then combine them and connect into the existing vent.
  5. coconutpete

    coconutpete New Member

    Messages:
    14
    Location:
    North CT / Denmark
    AH!!! You are right. I remember now from when I had the kitchen wall open upstairs, the vent does split off up there and come off the trap arm as well.

    So ... if I poke around the site a bit I find this setup a few places which seems to be what I need - right?

    My only point of confusion is - where would I tie in the drain from the kitchen sink upstairs? Can that hook in below everything else since that has it's own "loop" or whatever you would refer to it as?

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Feb 1, 2013
  6. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    22,006
    Location:
    New England
    WHat's not visible from your picture is exactly how the WM drain line and the one from upstairs currently connect together. As long as you leave that alone, and only take out from the t the WM currently feeds into, then rebuild, it should be okay. Remember, the WM bits must all be 2".
  7. coconutpete

    coconutpete New Member

    Messages:
    14
    Location:
    North CT / Denmark
    This picture is turning into quite the frankenstein picture, but I think it'll make sense. I have pasted in a shot of the open kitchen wall above (Ignore all the cast iron and lead, most of it is gone now).

    I have also added arrows to illustrate how the drain from the kitchen ties into the rest.

    "X" is just in case I need to reference that joint.

    Attached Files:

  8. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,004
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    Your vent looks to be a vent.

    If you want to remove the 1.5" pipe out of the cast 2" hub, you can drill and pry the lead out.
    Or sometimes you can find a section of cast that can be cut, and then coupled to.
  9. coconutpete

    coconutpete New Member

    Messages:
    14
    Location:
    North CT / Denmark
    So basically build the same setup as in that picture of all the PVC I posted with the drain for the kitchen sink tied in below everything else in that picture?
  10. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    22,006
    Location:
    New England
    Take the fitting the WM joins into the drain out completely along with the stub going into the hub of the piece below (where the kitchen joins in). THen, rebuild from there. On the vent, you may need to cut it off higher to meet the 42" rule. You can use a no-hub, banded coupler there to join the new pipe to that you cut off.
  11. coconutpete

    coconutpete New Member

    Messages:
    14
    Location:
    North CT / Denmark
    This ain't the prettiest but it'll do .......

    Attached Files:

  12. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    22,006
    Location:
    New England
    Once you get the pipe out of the hub, you'll need to find the proper sized 'donut'. They come in lots of different sizes, and you may only find one size at a big box store. While there is a standard for the ID of the pipe, there's no standard for the size of the hub, and the donut needs to be sized to the hub (and why them makes lots of different versions). These can be a challenge to insert, as the pipe going through the middle of it is what expands it to make the seal, and it must be almost making the seal before the pipe is there. Too tight, you may not be able to get the pipe and donut in the hub; too loose, and it leaks.

    A slight bevel on the OD of the pipe and some dishwashing soap can help get it in, along with a good lever and fulcrum to push it in place (you may need to improvise that!).
  13. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,635
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    Putting the sink's tee above the washing machine will make it too high to be useful, but he cannot put the washing machine above the sink unless the sink has its own vent. IF he puts the sink drain into the pipe from the kitchen then the sink also needs its own vent.
  14. coconutpete

    coconutpete New Member

    Messages:
    14
    Location:
    North CT / Denmark
    So I should not build it the way I have it in my last picture?
  15. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,635
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    You CAN, but it probably won't work for the sink drain, unless you use a "wall mounted" sink that you can hang about 42" to the rim of it. However, it will work if you interchange the sink and washer "trap" locations, but keep the piping the same
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2013
  16. coconutpete

    coconutpete New Member

    Messages:
    14
    Location:
    North CT / Denmark
    OK -that should be manageable. So it seems there is a way to do this - now I just have to gather up the courage to rip out all the iron pipes!
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