Acidic Water, should I go for AN and softener or Stenner Feed Pump?

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imtiredofbadcoffee

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Please help me decide on how to address my acidic well water. Here are the water conditions:
Hardness: gpg 5
Iron: ppm 0
PH: 6.28
Sulphate 9.29 mg/L
Turbidity: ftu 1.15
TDS: ppm 187

I'm not going the DIY route. First quote is from the local well driller who recommends a Master MP-CnS-3oT Neutralizer / Softener combo unit (two tanks, stacked, one control valve). Price is $2290 installed. It seems a bit expensive to me, and I don't like the idea of adding hundreds of pounds of salt to the environment if indeed it is bad for the environment. If I can be convinced it is not bad I might go for it.

The second quote is from a water technology company who quotes $1500 for metered feed pump system that uses sodium carbonate. He proposes using a pump mounted in a solution tank which would inject into my well pressure tank which would then push the mixture into a contact tank and onward. I notice there is not a lot of love for these systems out there in cyber land. Are these systems problematic to maintain?

While talking to the man about the metered pump I mentioned I would be replacing the copper with Pex and he said my third option would be to do nothing because the Pex isn't affected by the acid. Is ignoring the problem an option?

Thanks in advance,
Joe
 
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Mialynette2003

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I have yet to see a water heater made out of pex. Changing your water lines to pex may solve one problem, but not all. Is the sodium bicarbonate available without problems. Are you restricted to buying it from 1 company in your area or many. Only having 1 place to purchase it from may mean a higher price.
 

imtiredofbadcoffee

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I have yet to see a water heater made out of pex. Changing your water lines to pex may solve one problem, but not all. Is the sodium bicarbonate available without problems. Are you restricted to buying it from 1 company in your area or many. Only having 1 place to purchase it from may mean a higher price.
I can get about 8 years out of a water heater. Replacement cost of the water heater would be less than the cost of the soda ash over 8 years. I have had to replace 3 kitchen faucets over 18 years because of pinhole leaks, so I would still be ahead by not adressing the problem. But you are right, not all my problems are solved by doing nothing and I would rather to fix it. What I am trying to figure out is how problematic and expensive would the injection system be when compared to the softening system. And can anyone tell me if all the salt (tons?) I would putting in the ground will someday reach the well I won't put in the softener. I might not live to see that day but someone will if indeed that can happen.
Joe
 

Reach4

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I can get about 8 years out of a water heater. Replacement cost of the water heater would be less than the cost of the soda ash over 8 years.

I am glad to see that you changed from sodium bicarbonate to sodium carbonate. I expect sodium hydroxide would be cheaper, but it might be harder to get right.
 

Mialynette2003

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I've worked with soda ash once. Heard over the years you have to install a mixer to constantly stir the solution. I found out why after about 2 months. It turned hard. Never again. On the same token, pH neutralizers will harden like concrete if not installed properly (up-flow for in/out).
 

imtiredofbadcoffee

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I am glad to see that you changed from sodium bicarbonate to sodium carbonate. I expect sodium hydroxide would be cheaper, but it might be harder to get right.
I miss spoke using "sodium bicarbonate". Looking at the proposal paperwork the material listed that is to be place in a 30 gallon solution tank is 25 pounds sodium carbonate (soda ash).
Thanks for pointing that out. The original post has been corrected.
 

imtiredofbadcoffee

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I've worked with soda ash once. Heard over the years you have to install a mixer to constantly stir the solution. I found out why after about 2 months. It turned hard. Never again. On the same token, pH neutralizers will harden like concrete if not installed properly (up-flow for in/out).
I don't see any mention of a mechanical mixer in the proposal. What is your estimation of how often the stuff needs to be stirred, and would something like an electric drill with a paddle be necessary to do the work?

This will be one of the questions I'll ask the designer. Thanks much for the comment.
 

Reach4

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This post contains no actual suggestions. It is just pondering.

While looking around I found http://www.extension.org/pages/32302/drinking-water-treatment-ph-adjustment It suggests that injection could be right into the well where it would also serve to keep the well parts more safe from low pH.

I don't have a formed opinion. I am thinking potassium hydroxide or sodium hydroxide would go into solution better than sodium carbonate. However the carbonate offers buffering ability that hydroxides do not -- the pH tends to stay in the right range, even if the injection proportions are not ideal. I guess that is why I am not finding people offering hydroxide injection systems for the home. They are apparently somewhat common for municipal systems.

It seems to me that an ideal system would inject a hydroxide controlled by a pH feedback system, but have a safety mechanism to shut that down in the case of a failure in the primary system. Yet I cannot find such a system offered.

Also, although there are systems that chlorinate by dropping pellets into the well casing, I don't find reference to systems that do that with sodium carbonate pellets.
 

ditttohead

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I am partial to the simplicity and low operating cost of using a calcite backwashing system in your application. your pH is only moderately low. The correction with calcite (crushed marble, calcium carbonate) will raise your hardness slightly. You could add a softener later if you desired. Backwashing systems are very simple to maintain, especially if you get one with a dome hole. I am a designer of stacked tank systems and a calcite/softener stacked unit is not a very good combo. It tends to have to small of a softener and the backwash rates of a softener and calcite are too far apart for the systems to work as well as they should. I would recommend two separate tanks.

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imtiredofbadcoffee

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I am partial to the simplicity and low operating cost of using a calcite backwashing system in your application. your pH is only moderately low. The correction with calcite (crushed marble, calcium carbonate) will raise your hardness slightly. You could add a softener later if you desired. Backwashing systems are very simple to maintain, especially if you get one with a dome hole. I am a designer of stacked tank systems and a calcite/softener stacked unit is not a very good combo. It tends to have to small of a softener and the backwash rates of a softener and calcite are too far apart for the systems to work as well as they should. I would recommend two separate tanks.

View attachment 27815
Yes, the pump system seems like it will be expensive over the long run and more complex. I think I'm going to eliminate it. Between the softener and the neutralizer which one would need the backflush more often? And about how much more hardness would the neutralizer create?
 

_John_

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Yeah, I like the idea of a calcite filter and a softener (if desired) with separate control valves. Usually the calcite filter would backwash more often.

I forget the number on added hardness, it's 3-5 gpg per pH unit if memory serves.
 

ditttohead

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The softener regenerates based on gallons used, with your low hardness the softener may only regenerate every few weeks. The calcite should backwash every few days to no less than weekly. The backwash only needs to be for 5 minutes on the calcite. Hardness increase varies, but like John said, 3-5 would be a safe guess.
 

Reach4

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I remember watching a video that suggested a natural color (not painted) tank for the calcite media so that you can see the level by backlighting with a flashlight. Maybe that choice is pretty much automatic.
 

ditttohead

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Not really, transluscent tanks have a higher potential for growing stuff inside, opaque tanks are preferred. It is not that difficult to maintain a calcite tank, just open the dome port every few months and look inside.
 
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