ABS toilet drain and flange

Discussion in 'Toilet Forum discussions' started by guga, Feb 29, 2008.

  1. guga

    guga New Member

    Messages:
    15
    Hi, after much contemplation I replaced a section of my cast iron stack with ABS, which now enables me to run all ABS from that point on.

    From all the reading I have done 4x3 closet bends are used leaving a 4" spigot coming out of the floor. I haven't been able to find one locally despite being in a large city in Canada, so obviously there must be another way to do this competently.

    When I attach a 3" elbow to the 3" double wye the verticle part of the elbow (spigot) is sitting about 1" below what I anticipate the finished floor will be. If I use a 4x3 flange hub I will not fully seat the elbow spigot into the flange. What to do?

    I know I could stick the spigot end of the elbow into the double wye and then attach a 3" verticle piece into the hub elbow and use a 3" inside flange, but I've heard this is not preferable. Hmmmmmm. Hope this makes sense.

    [​IMG]
  2. krow

    krow Plumber

    Messages:
    906
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    To get around the spacing issue from your 90: using a hub x hub 90

    You can cut up to 1/2" from your 90 hub and do the same from your floor flange to decrease the space between the flange and your floor.

    If your in Canada, they do not allow the double wye on the horizontal as your pic shows. It may be ok in the US, but not in Canada
    (They don't use the double wye like that in the US either Terry)
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 29, 2008
  3. guga

    guga New Member

    Messages:
    15
    Do you know why this would be?

    I have been able to get some information on local codes, but have not come across anything about this. This complicates matters.
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 29, 2008
  4. krow

    krow Plumber

    Messages:
    906
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    The inspectors are suggesting that the opposite side of the 2 branches will have backfall. You will be able to get one side of the Y above the horizontal plane, but not the other side

    That looks like its on the top floor, so if no other fixture are on the next floor up (if you have one), the WC (toilet ) will be stack vented
  5. krow

    krow Plumber

    Messages:
    906
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    Here is another piping suggestion. Sizing of the branches will depend on type of fixture being used on the branch

    Attached Files:

  6. guga

    guga New Member

    Messages:
    15
    Hi, I appreciate the quick responses, I will have to think about this in terms of configuring your suggestion. I'm just not sure how this would work without cutting into the structure. The toilet sits with the sink on one side and the the bath tub on the other. Those pieces of wood parallel in the pic are blocking. The joist run perpendicular to the toilet drain.

    With regards to cutting the hub. If I cut 1/2" off the hub on the elbow that will mean it is 1 1/2" below the finished floor. The hub on the flange is 2 1/4 so that if I cut 1/2" off it will be 1 3/4 which will still end up hitting the hub on the elbow before the flange rests on the floor. If I'm misunderstanding please let me know. Thanks
    Last edited: Feb 29, 2008
  7. krow

    krow Plumber

    Messages:
    906
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    THe hub on the flange is 1 1/2" so if you cut 1/2" off each fitting and with the 1" that you initially started with, you will have 2" of play. The base of the flange can fit directly on top of the flooring fastened securely. The Wax gasket will squeeze enough to get your WC down to the floor.

    If this still does not work

    You can install the top surface of flange flush with the top floor surface of the floor and use a hub x spigot 90. Glue the flange onto the spigot. It will be acceptable up to 3/4" in .(Of course, the more you can get it in, the better it will be)
  8. guga

    guga New Member

    Messages:
    15
    Are we talking a flange with a hub that fits on the outside of a 3" pipe?
  9. krow

    krow Plumber

    Messages:
    906
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    yes, we determine the inside diametre of pipe . The spigot side of the 90 is the same diameter of the pipe


    The pic that you show , shows a hub x spigot 90 or , as we call them in Canada, Fitting 90
    Last edited: Feb 29, 2008
  10. guga

    guga New Member

    Messages:
    15
    [​IMG]

    Sorry, this must be painful for you.


    Distance 1 is 1 1/2" and distance 2 is 2 1/4". I'm just thinking that after cutting 1/2" off, distance 2 will be 1 3/4", which will butt up against the hub of the elbow, which will be recessed in to the floor 1 1/2"

    I guess your second option would be the best. I just didn't know if it was necessary to FULLY seat the hub of the flange onto the elbow spigot and you're saying it isn't.
    Last edited: Feb 29, 2008
  11. krow

    krow Plumber

    Messages:
    906
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    I'm probably starting to confuse you. Here is another scenario using the fittings that I see. The hub x spigot 90 and the flange that you show in the 2nd pic. As long as the hub grabs at least 3/4" in minimum


    BTW, I enjoy helping people out, I don't mind at all

    Attached Files:

  12. guga

    guga New Member

    Messages:
    15
    Cheers Krow, that will work. Like I said I was under the impression for no particular reason that the full 1 1/2" of the flange hub would need to be filled. Thanks
  13. krow

    krow Plumber

    Messages:
    906
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    Good to hear (read)




    Thanks for enlightening me Terry. Certain allowable codes are different in the US and Canada. There are certain materials in the US that we do not use in Canada for the same applications, and vise versa.
  14. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,002
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    I've used the double wye on the vertical, but not horizontal like in the picture.
    The funny thing is, when I was getting into plumbing, they didn't let me run waste and vent the first nine months.
    After seeing it every day, when running your copper around it, it starts making more sense.
    They figure the water supply can go up, and down, and sidewise, but the waste, can only go down.
    And I had to let the journeyman run his waste in the wall before I started throwing my copper in.
    It seems that Canada and the US are pretty close in codes.
  15. krow

    krow Plumber

    Messages:
    906
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    They are extremely close.
    You know what they say , the 2 things a plumber knows, " s#!t rolls downhill, and pay day is on Friday" lol


    The only difference that I have noticed so far, are the use of fernco couplings above ground and the use of pvc above ground.
    We can use fernco's above ground as long as both ends of the materials are fastened properly. And we do not use pvc above ground. I don't even know if its even available at our suppliers. I'm sure we could special order if we had to. 4" pvc is widely available (for underground only.) 3" pcv never used by plumbers. Mostly DIY would find it at HD
    Last edited: Feb 29, 2008
  16. Redwood

    Redwood Master Plumber

    Messages:
    7,450
    Location:
    Connecticut
    One thing I would do is use a different flange... Ditch that all plastic flange and use one with a metal ring... Preferably a stainless steel ring!
  17. krow

    krow Plumber

    Messages:
    906
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    No such animal in Canada. They do however make a flange with adjustable metal ring which is epoxy coated. They look real flymsy though. It almost looks like it would pull away from the plastic hub
    Last edited: Feb 29, 2008
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