About to lose my mind...Please help. Softener selection for expanding family

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WHOBEE

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My apologies for being a first time poster with zero value to add to this forum. As an accountant (and usually informed buyer), I am truly losing my mind trying to wrap my head around the complexity of water filtration systems. I simply can't do it.

I have a 20 month old and another baby due in 2 months. Realized it is time for a water softener after our first child due to very hard water raising havoc on our daughter's skin and clothes.

So I purchased an independent analysis to the tune of $400 to find out what I partially knew. We have extremely hard water at my Connecticut home. The calcium hardness is 130. Only other flag on the report was Radon at 1320 pCi/L which was concerning but on the flip side we don't drink our well water as we have a delivery service (maybe that is worse???idk). Family of 3 (soon to be 4), 1.5 baths.

I am getting quotes that are leaving me nauseous.

Here are the 3 I am choosing from.

Quote 1: $1900
-Pentec 10" filter
-Fleck 9" X 48" Oxygen Chamber System filter with Fleck 2510SXT Digital Control.
-Fleck 32,000 Grain Capacity Water Softener with 5600SXT Computerized Control Valve.

Quote 2: $1700
-Pentec 10" filter
-Fleck 32,000 Grain Capacity Water Softener with 5600SXT Computerized Control Valve.

Quote 3: $1800
-20" Big Blue filter
-48k grain Clack Dot Mattrix softener

I have no idea if these units are meeting my needs. Any suggestions if this appears like a suitable system and which you would recommend?

Thank you in advance.

MCL - US EPA Max Contamination Limit

RL - US EPA Recommended Limit

ND - None Detected

NTU - Turbidity unit

NE - None Established

AL - Action Level

DL - Detection Limit


PARAMETER RESULTS DL UNITS MCL COMMENT

Total Coliforms Absent /100ML 0

Escherichia Coli Absent /100ML NE

Nitrite 0.021 0.010 ppm 1.0

Nitrate 2.3 0.050 ppm 10

Chloride 15 2.0 ppm 250

pH 7.4 pH Units 6.4 to 10.0

Turbidity 0.73 0.10 NTU 5

Iron 0.15 0.051 ppm 0.3

Manganese 0.0022 0.0020 ppm 0.05

Calcium Hardness 130 0.13 ppm NE

Sodium 9.6 1.0 ppm 28

Sulfate 21 5.0 ppm 250


RESULTS DL MCL RL AL

Alkalinity, as CaCO3 140 mg/L 1.0 NE NE NE

Fluoride ND mg/L 0.20 4.0 2.0 NE

Solids, Total Dissolved (TDS) 230 mg/L 10 NE 500 NE

Specific Conductance 380 Micromhos/cm 1.0 NE NE NE

Residual Chlorine ND mg/L 0.050 NE NE NE

Radon 1320 pCi/L NE NE NE

Arsenic ND mg/L 0.0041 0.010 NE NE

Beryllium ND mg/L 0.0010 0.004 NE NE

Copper 0.0077 mg/L 0.0010 NE NE 1.3

Uranium 0.0017 mg/L 0.0010 0.030 NE NE


And None Detected of the following:


Benzene ND 0.50 5.0

Bromobenzene ND 0.50 NE

Bromochloromethane ND 0.50 NE

Bromodichloromethane ND 0.50 NE

Bromoform ND 0.50 NE

Bromomethane ND 0.50 NE

n-Butylbenzene ND 0.50 NE

sec-Butylbenzene ND 0.50 NE

tert-Butylbenzene ND 0.50 NE

Carbon tetrachloride ND 0.50 5.0

Chlorobenzene ND 0.50 100

Chloroethane ND 0.50 NE

Chloroform ND 0.50 NE

Chloromethane ND 0.50 NE

2-Chlorotoluene ND 0.50 NE

4-Chlorotoluene ND 0.50 NE

1,2-Dibromo-3-chloropropane (DBCP) ND 0.50 0.2

Dibromochloromethane ND 0.50 NE

1,2-Dibromoethane (EDB) ND 0.50 0.05

Dibromomethane ND 0.50 NE

1,2-Dichlorobenzene ND 0.50 600

1,3-Dichlorobenzene ND 0.50 NE

1,4-Dichlorobenzene ND 0.50 75

Dichlorodifluoromethane ND 0.50 NE

1,1-Dichloroethane ND 0.50 NE

1,2-Dichloroethane ND 0.50 5.0

1,1-Dichloroethene ND 0.50 7.0

cis-1,2-Dichloroethene ND 0.50 70

trans-1,2-Dichloroethene ND 0.50 100

1,2-Dichloropropane ND 0.50 5.0

1,3-Dichloropropane ND 0.50 NE

2,2-Dichloropropane ND 0.50 NE

1,1-Dichloropropene ND 0.50 NE

cis-1,3-Dichloropropene ND 0.50 NE

trans-1,3-Dichloropropene ND 0.50 NE

Ethylbenzene ND 0.50 700

Hexachlorobutadiene ND 0.50 NE

Isopropylbenzene ND 0.50 NE

4-Isopropyltoluene ND 0.50 NE

Methyl tert-butyl ether (MTBE) ND 1.0 NE

Methylene chloride ND

Naphthalene ND 0.50 NE

n-Propylbenzene ND 0.50 NE

Styrene ND 0.50 100

1,2,3-Trichloropropane ND 0.50 NE

1,2,3-Trimethylbenzene ND 0.50 NE

1,1,1,2-Tetrachloroethane ND 0.50 NE

1,1,2,2-Tetrachloroethane ND 0.50 NE

Tetrachloroethene (PCE) ND 0.50 5.0

Toluene ND 0.50 1000.0

1,2,3-Trichlorobenzene ND 0.50 NE

1,2,4-Trichlorobenzene ND 0.50 70

1,1,1-Trichloroethane ND 0.50 200

1,1,2-Trichloroethane ND 0.50 5.0

Trichloroethene (TCE) ND 0.50 5.0

Trichlorofluoromethane ND 0.50 NE

1,2,4-Trimethylbenzene ND 0.50 NE

1,3,5-Trimethylbenzene ND 0.50 NE

Vinyl chloride ND 0.50 2.0

Xylenes (total) ND 0.50 10,000
 
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Reach4

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I think Katalox light lists radon as something that it helps too, although iron is usually its primary target. How are your numbers? Iron, manganese, hardness, pH? Other numbers higher than the MCL or secondary MCL, or even half of those levels? That will let people review your softener need and more.

http://www.karlabs.com/watertestkit/ says they test for uranium, which is a precursor of radon. For most people, their kit90 is enough.

Quote 1 appears to be the better deal, although I don't know what that "Oxygen Chamber System filter" is. Maybe you could ask them what it would cost to upgrade that to Katalox Light.

Those 10 inch Pentek filters may be 4.5 x 10 Big Blue filters. If so, they could be upgraded later if you found you were changing cartridges too often, to us 4.5 x 20 sumps if there is room.
 

ditttohead

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That is a fairly low level of radon and is easily treated. There are a few methods you could use but a simple carbon system will usually suffice at this low level. Post your water report, we can help out a lot better with more information. In general, I am not a fan of BB for whole house filtration.

130 calcium hardness is not very high either, easily treatable. I would highly recommend getting a Hach 5B so you can get a true hardness test.

Any other problems with your well water? Color, turbidity, taste, odor?
 

WHOBEE

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I posted the results of the test. (I hope they are legible as I could not upload the file)

pH 7.4
Turbidity 0.73
Iron 0.15
Manganese 0.0022

No real issues with taste. The biggest issue has been the deposits in the faucets and staining. My primary concern is to have less "harsh" water for clothes and to prevent long term clogging of our pipes. As of now, we basically run a vinegar factory to clean the toilets, aerators, etc.
 

Reach4

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Ask the #1 guy what he would do the "48000" 1.5 cuft with a 4.5 x 20 Pentek Big Blue filter for. I am guessing about $1200 plus tax including install and all. You could leave space to add a radon etc filter before the big blue in the future if you liked.
 

ditttohead

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1.5 CF carbon tank, 1.5 CF softener, done. Even better would be to upgrade to 2 CF in each tank. Simple, and it shouldn't be too much. A BB Carbon whole house filter is not recommended, especially for any actual performance. The cost to maintain the BB is far too high compared to a larger tank design.
 

Reach4

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1.5 CF carbon tank, 1.5 CF softener, done.
Is the activated carbon tank mainly as a sediment filter or also as a radon filter?

WHOBEE, on your water test, I think "Calcium Hardness" from the test results is Calcium equivalent Hardness which is the major factor in softener sizing.

I note the water test did not test for some things including
lead
lithium
mercury
molybdenum
thallium
chromium
antimony
magnesium
calcium (separately)

Maybe that is because those heavy metals are not found in your area, where they did test for a lot of organics. Separating the magnesium and calcium numbers does not affect the treatment.
 

Bannerman

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Your Iron and manganese levels are low and as you specified you have no Hydrogen Sulphide (rotten egg odor) issues, why then would the first quote include an air chamber (oxidizing) filter.

Is there visible sediment in the water or is there another purpose for the cartridge filter in each quote? Perhaps you simply requested a filter?

As Dittohead specified, a backwashing carbon filter would be most appropriate for your water conditions.

The hardness test should indicate both calcium and magnesium as they are the usual causes of hard water. Obtaining a Hach 5B Total Hardness test kit would permit you to periodically test both the incoming and softened water hardness levels.
 

Reach4

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Your Iron and manganese levels are low and as you specified you have no Hydrogen Sulphide (rotten egg odor) issues, why then would the first quote include an air chamber (oxidizing) filter.
I suspect that filter is not just an air chamber but has some media such as BIRM. I searched on the term, and I think a BIRM filter was the first one that came up.
 

WHOBEE

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Is the activated carbon tank mainly as a sediment filter or also as a radon filter?

WHOBEE, on your water test, I think "Calcium Hardness" from the test results is Calcium equivalent Hardness which is the major factor in softener sizing.

I note the water test did not test for some things including
lead
lithium
mercury
molybdenum
thallium
chromium
antimony
magnesium
calcium (separately)

Maybe that is because those heavy metals are not found in your area, where they did test for a lot of organics. Separating the magnesium and calcium numbers does not affect the treatment.

You are correct, none of the items mentioned about were tested with the exception os lead which was not detected. I used Microbac labs which did what they call a "New England" profile test.
 

WHOBEE

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Your Iron and manganese levels are low and as you specified you have no Hydrogen Sulphide (rotten egg odor) issues, why then would the first quote include an air chamber (oxidizing) filter.

Is there visible sediment in the water or is there another purpose for the cartridge filter in each quote? Perhaps you simply requested a filter?

As Dittohead specified, a backwashing carbon filter would be most appropriate for your water conditions.

The hardness test should indicate both calcium and magnesium as they are the usual causes of hard water. Obtaining a Hach 5B Total Hardness test kit would permit you to periodically test both the incoming and softened water hardness levels.

No idea on why they included the air chamber. I simply gave them the water results and that is what they came up with. I too was surprised by this added item since no other company recommended anything to this effect.

I do get my current whole house filter clogged with silty sediment but I honestly think that has more to do with well pump height than anything.
 

Bannerman

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I anticipated the unit in the first quote was supplied by that company. They offer the air chamber system with various medias as shown here:
http://www.aquascience.net/products/filtration-treatment-systems/oxygen-chamber-systems

Your water report does not indicate issues that would justify such a system. As previously suggested, a back washing carbon tank filter would be more appropriate.

As you mention sediment within your water supply, you may wish to consider a sediment filter located directly following your pressure tank & switch, to catch the sediment prior to the other water treatment equipment. A flushable sediment filter commonly recommended on this forum is the Lakos Twist-II-Clean as shown here: http://www.twistiiclean.com
 

WHOBEE

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Your Iron and manganese levels are low and as you specified you have no Hydrogen Sulphide (rotten egg odor) issues, why then would the first quote include an air chamber (oxidizing) filter.

Is there visible sediment in the water or is there another purpose for the cartridge filter in each quote? Perhaps you simply requested a filter?

As Dittohead specified, a backwashing carbon filter would be most appropriate for your water conditions.

The hardness test should indicate both calcium and magnesium as they are the usual causes of hard water. Obtaining a Hach 5B Total Hardness test kit would permit you to periodically test both the incoming and softened water hardness levels.

I inquired as to why this system was included and they said it was because my Sulfar was 21ppm in the water report. Since I have no rotten egg odors I am going to request this system not be included and request a re-quote with the Twist II Clean as well.
 

Reach4

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I inquired as to why this system was included and they said it was because my Sulfar was 21ppm in the water report.
Maybe they were thinking that was 21 ppm of H2S -- which would be a lot-- rather than sulfate? 21 ppm of sulfate is not much. Secondary MCL for sulfate is 250 ppm.
 
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